Friday Rockpile: Rockies Ridding Selves of Bad Memories of Drafts Past
by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2012 7:30 AM MST
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PrintAs we gather together this Friday to gab about Rockies baseball, we should first take a minute and look back at the former 1st round draft picks the Rockies have made over the past, let's say, decade, and where they are today:
2001: SS Jayson Nix - After spending 2010 in the majors between the Cleveland Indians and the Chicago White Sox, Nix put up some respectable AAA numbers in 2011 in AAA Las Vegas along with some downright putrid ones with the Blue Jays. Nix was non-tendered by the Rockies in 2008 and has bounced around free agency and waivers since then. Gone.
2002: LHP Jeff Francis - Francis posted 4 increasingly strong seasons with the Rockies, peaking in 2007 when he won 17 games and started Game 1 of the World Series. Francis then posted parts of 2 below-average season before hitting free agency after 2010. He then posted a questionable season with the Royals, making 31 starts and throwing 181 innings. Injury really threw this guy's career off the tracks. Gone.
2003: 3B Ian Stewart - After 3 seasons of debatable value, Stewart began the 2011 season injured and on the active roster, played terribly, and was just traded to the Cubs. Gone.
2004: SS Chris Nelson - We've been watching Nelson and his stone glove travel around the infield over the past couple of years. Injury really hampered his development, and it's looking pretty bleak regarding his chances of sticking in MLB any longer. Still Here.
2005: SS Troy Tulowitzki - Tulo is the best SS in baseball. Still Here.
2005s: RHP Chaz Roe - Roe was traded to the Seattle Mariners for Jose Lopez during the 2010-2011 offseason. He's been incredibly hittable in AAA and gives up too much of the long ball. Gone.
2006: RHP Greg Reynolds - An incredibly questionable pick at #2 overall, especially with 3B Evan Longoria, LHP Clayton Kershaw, and RHP Tim Lincecum still on the board, Reynolds had an uphill battle to begin with. After injury completely derailed his minor league career, Reynolds pitched terribly in 94 MLB innings between 2008 and 2011. He's been traded to the Texas Rangers. Gone.
2007: RHP Casey Weathers - You don't take a reliever with the 8th overall pick in the draft. You just don't. Did we learn NOTHING from Matt Anderson? Weathers had Tommy John surgery while in AA and just hasn't been able to find his control. He was traded with Ian Stewart to the Cubs. Gone.
2008: LHP Christian Friedrich - A seemingly similar story to Reynolds (except without the #2 overall stigma working against him), Friedrich looked real good coming up from High-A Modesto, and then got hurt. Since joining the Tulsa Drillers, Friedrich has seen his strikeout numbers drop and his hittability skyrocket. There's still MLB hope for him, but he might be best served as a trade chip at this point. Still Here.
2009: LHP Tyler Matzek - When we drafted this incredibly raw but incredibly high-upside kid, I was nothing but excited. Since the Rockies tried adjusting his mechanics away from the Marshall system he'd come into pro ball with, I'm almost tired of hearing his name, as it's typically associated with "The Rockies screwed him up" and "Rabble Rabble Greg Reynolds". Still Here.
2009: CF Tim Wheeler - In case you missed it, Wheeler's 33 HR set a Tulsa Drillers record for homers in a single season. Given the number of outfielders the Rockies haven't traded away yet in front of him in Charlie Blackmon and... uh... Seth Smith? Michael Cuddyer?... not sure where I was going with that. Whatever, it sounds like the organization is still high on Wheeler, but it's going to be a huge question mark as to whether his power numbers will show at the MLB level. Still Here.
2009s: LHP Rex Brothers - Despite being completely overshadowed by Atlanta's Craig Kimbrel and Jonny Venters, Brothers quietly posted a 2.88 ERA over 41 innings in his rookie season, striking out 13.1 batters per 9 and only allowing 7.3 hits per 9 innings. The kid has "closer" written all over him. Still Here.
2010: RF Kyle Parker - Parker had a strong debut in the Rockies' organization in Asheville of the South Atlantic League, posting a .850 OPS with solid power, yet worrisome strikeout rates. Here's to hoping his Age-22 season in Modesto shows growth, and that we might have a corner OF/1B candidate in Parker for when Todd Helton retires. Still Here.
2010s: RHP Peter Tago - Tago is still about as raw as they come. He still has a bigtime fastball, it's just a question of where it's going. Still a ways away from even talking about MLB. Still Here.
2011: LHP Tyler Anderson - This Oregon Duck signed at the deadline, and hasn't pitched for Colorado yet. Still Here.
2011s: SS Trevor Story - Story posted an impressive organizational debut in Rk Casper, batting .268/.364/.436 over 64 games. He's a hard worker and an excellent athlete. There's a lot of projectability for this kid. Still Here.
So now that we've gone through a decade of Rockies 1st round picks, let's see what we have left, as far as MLB players go:
Troy Tulowitzki
Rex Brothers
Chris Nelson
That's one "hit", one probably "hit" in Brothers, and Chris Nelson, who is fighting for a utility role.
Before we bust out the pitchforks... actually, no. It's really hard to rationalize that much draft failure in the first round. The best rationale seems to be "they make up for it in depth", but it's almost harder to get behind that. Depth is fine, it's good, but it's depth. For a team that suffered through a relatively long rebuild, there's just not a lot to show for all the patience. You can almost see the trend after Tulo: pick all the safe college guys with limited upside but a good shot at said upside being a MLB upside (the exception, of course, being Matzek). You can sort of excuse some of it, as the Rockies DID make the World Series and also won 92 games in 2009, and there just isn't that much "WHOAH" talent left in the 20's, but still, it's like in football practice: Don't try not to get hurt, because trying to let up and playing it "safe" is just going to get you hurt in the end, anyhow. Playing it safe tends to turn around and bite teams in the long run.
I remember during a game last year where Francis was pitching for Colorado. We could have assembled an entire infield of Rockies 1st round picks (minus catcher, I guess): Todd Helton, Chris Nelson, Troy Tulowitzki, and Ian Stewart, all backing up Jeff Francis. We probably lost that game.
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Not a good resume as a GM…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Meh.
Obviously, DOD has been horrible at the draft. That being said, it isn’t like every GM strikes gold every year. Even those viewed as the best at the draft don’t pick guaranteed winners in the first round.
Andrew Friedman:
2004: Jeff Niemann (Picked with Chuck LaMar)
2005: Wade Townsend
2006: Evan Longoria
2007: David Price
2008: Tim Beckham
2009: LeVon Washington
2010: Josh Sale
2010: Justin O’Connor
2010s: Drew Vettleson
2011: 10 guys that I’m too lazy to list.
I think if you look at other GMs by their first-round picks you’ll see similar hits and misses. This isn’t to say that DOD isn’t weaker here than most GMs in his time with the Rockies, nor that he doesn’t deserve the criticism. I just don’t think you can look at this list and conclude that DOD is a bad GM.
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valid point
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
Look at San Diego's last ten years if you really want to shutter, ditto Houston
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Good breakdown of the Francis pick
While it’s sad that the torn labrum derailed his career, I can’t consider Francis a draft mistake. He did all that you can really expect a #1 pick to do before suffering that “pitcher’s worst nightmare” injury. O’Dowd’s made some God-awful gaffes on Draft Day, but this wasn’t one of them.
he was really fun to watch early on
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 8:14 AM MST up reply actions
Best game I ever saw Francis pitch was the 2-hit shutout against StL in 2006.
I went with a couple of Cardinal fans and they were left all dumbfounded and flustered.
And this was the StL team that won the WS that year.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 6, 2012 11:15 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Francis struck-out Pujols 3x on Memorial Day 2007..
completely dominated the Cards that day.
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by Charlie77 on Jan 6, 2012 8:32 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Starlin the Darlin in a bit of poo, Sounds a bit familiar to a Denver story
She claims that she was drinking with friends at a River North nightclub on the night of Sept. 29 when she met Castro.
Sources say she and a friend left the bar at 3 a.m. and went to the 21-year-old Castro’s apartment on State Street nearby.
According to the police report, the alleged victim said she blacked out.
She told police she came to, and found the alleged offender – Castro, according to our sources – sexually assaulting her.
The heavily redacted police report offers little information.
It says that when she woke up she screamed and yelled at her alleged attacker, and left the apartment at about 5:30 a.m. getting a ride home from her friend.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
oh my.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2012 8:26 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
That man is in some deep doodie.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 6, 2012 8:40 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I have only had two blackouts from drinking in my life, in both cases I said and did a lot of stuff I have no
recollection of. Had a few conversations apparently that were rather in depth….Zero remembrance. One of them the last thing I remember was around 10-11PM then I was wide awake at 4am ready to go get breakfast.
I had a friend in college who was a manic depressive/bipolar and prone to blackouts, I remember dragging her out of parties where she was walking/talking/flirting/making out but wasn’t “there” I knew she wasn’t because I knew her, if I didn’t know her I would have thought she was just another girl drinking and having fun.
The problem with these stories is that as awful as they seem we have no way of knowing how she was acting during that time that she was blacked out
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
The Parrish Cox story was a little more horrifying in that several people saw her out cold responseless
and Cox denied everything
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
yeah the kicker being as that he denied it
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 8:51 AM MST up reply actions
his story was almost as horrifying as the Josh Lueke story
both ought to be castrated
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I had one, it was scary and weird. Because you have no recollection…its fuzzy right before it happened and really scary when you wake up.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 8:43 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah I literally woke up in the middle of a conversation I was having with a friend
just glad I hadn’t done or said anything awful
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I woke up one morning and wondered how I got home, I called my friend that I was with the night before and asked him. He told me I drove.
by 3nS on Jan 6, 2012 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
Never did that one, was over the legal limits a few times though not smart at all
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
probably a wise idea
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I once was physically manhandled out of the driver's seat by my friend
But I remember it and was just very drunk rather than properly wasted. I was very grateful to him. I was probably 18 at the time.
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my dad once drove drunk home away from a party
He ran over a mailbox on the way out. I was 9 and in the backseat. A CSU volleyball coach’s wife was killed by a drunk driver, who was the father of one of my best friends. So yeah, I’ve never driven without total control.
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"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 9:40 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Hey, Fish!
Let me know about our deal if you can.
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I emailed a couple hours ago
looks like it didn’t go thru
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 9:59 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
scary.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
unless theres DNA
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
That can prove contact but not context
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
true…
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
Reminds me of SuperBad
Officer Michaels: You know, this job though isn’t how shows like CSI make it out to be, when I first joined the force, I was under the impression that everything was covered in a fine layer of semen. And that the police had at their disposal a semen database with every bad guy’s semen on it. Not true!
Officer Slater: Yup
Officer Michaels: If only there was semen on everything, it would make our jobs easier…
Officer Slater: Hell, yeah!
Officer Michaels: I often go to sleep and dream of waking up in a world where everything is covered in semen.
Officer Slater: I mean, who doesn’t? It’s like your wish that you could walk out of a room and just know where the semen was. You just know like Sherlock Holmes, if he was in his day, Sherlock Holomes, in his day… And this is a proven historical fact. Sherlock Holmes, when he was alive, knew where semen was.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
Matt Klaassen cannot figure out what the Rockies are doing
http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/01/05/lost-in-the-rockies/
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 8:28 AM MST via Android app reply actions
Lemme fix that for you ...
Andrew Fisher Matt Klaassen cannot figure out what the Rockies are doing.
And I agree.
Meh again.
The problem is not that a team cannot contend and rebuild at the same time. Indeed, most contenders (except for maybe the Yankees) need to be making at least some "rebuilding" moves all of the time to sustain their success. However, the Rockies’ moves the last part of 2011 and the subsequent off-season just do not add up in either direction. They traded away a good pitcher and catcher who could have helped them the next two years for prospects that probably will not, while acquiring an outfielder who does not upgrade them much if at all and will only help the next year or two.
We are rebuilding. That’s quite clear to me. That’s why we are dumping all of these players who have been in the organization for most or all of their career. I’m not sure why that is so confusing. Is it confusing because we brought on Cuddyer? Maybe we didn’t want to run a bunch of AAAA players out in the outfield for two years and we wanted to maximize our return on Smith while we could since he wasn’t really going to help us contend either.
We were 73-89. Our only, truly veteran pitcher slated for the rotation at the moment isn’t coming back until mid-season. We’re rebuilding. The only starting position player coming back not named Cargo, Tulo, or Helton is Fowler. We’re rebuilding.
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If we don’t sign Cuddyer or really anybody for that matter, we start to lose faith in the casual fan. We need to continue to have a faithful fan base in order to pay for the Tulo and CarGo extensions. I think at least on a partial basis, its a business move to show to the public we are “still trying” but behind that we are rebuilding.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
we treat him like one
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
Read the second part of that sentence.
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I get that...
But we didn’t maximize our value on Smith (yet – could happen but not holding my breath). What is confusing to me, and what is I gather one of the main points of the article, is that we filled a hole we didn’t really have, paid a lot of money for a nice player who is likely to decline, all the while not addressing our glaring needs at 2b & 3b. While I am okay with the Blake signing and even the LeMahieu acquisition, I can’t help but think that signing Cuddyer before moving Smith was putting the cart before the proverbial horse.
This is what is confusing. There was some decent pitching that could be had (still could be though recently I read EJax’s ask was $15Mil for 5 – not that he’ll get that.
That's nice.
But it isn’t like 2B and 3B are falling out of trees. Look at it this way, even is we would have gotten a 5 WAR improvement from both 2B and 3B this year, we are still left with a .500 ball club. There was more wrong with this team than just 2B and 3B. The FO feels that the nature of the team, filled with young guys who are underachieving the expectations set for them, was not going to lead us to long-term competitiveness. Thus, they are rebuilding by sweeping out those guys. Maybe it won’t work. Maybe you disagree with it. But there seems to be a pretty clear plan.
As far as cart before the horse, I’m not sure what waiting to sign Cuddyer would have done. We might have lost him. The Rockies announced their intentions to rid themselves of Smith long before they signed Cuddyer. The Cuddyer signing didn’t damage his value anymore than it had already been damaged.
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But if we had lost him the difference to 2012 would have been marginal(ly worse)
And 2013 and 2014 might have been better.
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Why would 2013 and 2014 be better?
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Because we're paying $10m to a declining player when it could perhaps be more usefully spent elsewhere
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The point is ...
Our greater needs were SP and 2B/3B. If you don’t have a deal for Smith in place, you don’t signing an aging OF’er with middling to poor defense and create the surplus in the OF. Now we are left holding Smith … and while we may be able to deal him, the return is likely diminished. Again, I would love to be proven wrong here, but this is what I mean by the cart before the horse.
I think from DODs perspective, the greatest need was character and leadership that isn’t Tulo. In that regard, I think he’s met the goal. I don’t want to set off a debate on the intangibles thing again but I kind of buy into it. I don’t really like the Cuddyer signing, I think it’s too expensive for an older dude who’s fluctuated offensively, but I’ll leave it alone for now. As for not addressing 2b and 3b, 3b is kind of taking care of itself, and after Ellis and Aaron Hill, there weren’t any 2bs I’d want to sign and the Braves won’t be lowballed for Prado…
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You might be right.
The point of the article is that the Rockies have no plan. There is a plan.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks for keeping what was a good discussion going.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
I heard closer to 5/60
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Here's what I was referring to:
According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, free agent right-hander Edwin Jackson is seeking $15-17 million per season.Jackson’s agent, Scott Boras, has compared his client to C.J. Wilson, Mark Buehrle, John Lackey, A.J. Burnett and Derek Lowe, all of whom received north of $14 million per season as free agents. It’s worth noting that Wilson and Buehrle just signed and the final three names on the list turned out to be big mistakes, so we’re not sure this is the best strategy. Heyman hears that the Yankees will continue dialogue with Jackson, but the two sides are in no way close to a deal. Jan 3 – 4:03 PM
Not saying he’ll get that, but I guess it makes sense now that the rumor mill has been quiet on EJax.
Rebuilding =/= Dumping
And that’s what Klaasen is taking issue with. In the CDI and Street moves, the Rockies moved valuable, help-now players for a return that will help a little (Chatwood and salary relief) now but mean little in a couple of years.
It’s hard to argue that a team with Chacin, Tulo and Cargo should ever be in full-blown 3-4 year re-build mode. If the Rockies are in partial re-build mode, why sign Cuddyer and Hernandez? For the Rockies, the long-term contracts currently in place mean the need to find cheap, young talent to fill out the lineup (along with signing a veteran). It seems unlikely that Cuddyer and/or Hernandez will push them over the top, and could delay the development of cheaper, better prospects in the coming years.
Further, if they are re-building, why not hang on to Street and trade in-season when someone needs a closer? It’s not like they’re turning it over to Brothers right now as part of the youth movement. – they’re still using another veteran in Betancourt. If they knew CDI wasn’t part of the long-term plans, why not trade him before his value hit rock bottom or before you made it obvious that you don’t want him?
This is just a variation on old questions: 1. Why do the FO and manager operate in a way that devalues good trade chips (CDI, Street, Smith, etc.) when they aren’t going to win now? 2. Why does the FO choose inopportune times to give up on useful veterans (like when CDI’s value was at its lowest), and then sign older veterans to more expensive contracts?
don’t forget Hawpe and Atkins!
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I didn't know if I could kick that dead horse one more time
but that’s all part of my problem with the FO. They’ve done a lot of good things (like Tulo and Cargo, the return on Ubaldo), but there are some serious problems with assessing value on the roster (to say nothing of prospect development).
Chacin is far from an ace
I’m not altogether sure he’ll ever be a bona fide TOR starter.
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his 2010 was a bonifide TOR starter
with his historic BB rate 2011 would have been too.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
No.
He’s saying that the team has no direction. They do. The direction is to get rid of young players who were underachieving the expectations set for them. That includes CDI, Street, Stewart, Smith, and others.
Why do the FO and manager operate in a way that devalues good trade chips (CDI, Street, Smith, etc.) when they aren’t going to win now?
When did they devalue CDI, Street, and Smith? When they stopped playing them because they weren’t playing well?
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
When were they not playing well?
CDI’s offense was sometimes sporadic, but his overall line was that of a top ten MLB catcher.
And the complement to getting rid of young, underachieving players is to replace some of them with older, more expensive, marginally (if it all) better players?
Rudderless.
Look into CDI’s month-to-month splits. You’ll see when he played bad.
Anyway, you may not agree with the plan. But there is a plan. It’s quite clear. They aren’t rudderless. If anything they WERE rudderless as they waited on players to do things that they were not going to do. CDI was never going to have an SLG over .500 again. Smith was never going to hit over 20 HRs. Stewart was never going to lock up 3B. Street was never going to become a lights-out closer. They needed to do one of two things—adjust their expectations or let the players go. They let them go. As I’ve said, you may disagree with this, but I don;t think you can call them out for not having a plan.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
"Trust the process." - Dayton Moore
It’s not whether there is a plan, it’s whether there is a single, consistent plan. The actions of the last six months belie the claim that there is a single, consistent plan for the Rockies over the next 3-5 years.
How?
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maybe they plan to acquire Cole Hamels next year…we don’t know, there will always be part of plans that is unknown to the public and what not
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 1:15 PM MST up reply actions
god that free agent class is ridiculous
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Dumping young veterans for cash or middling prospects
as part of some sort of purging usually means that younger talent will be given a chance to play. Or veterans are brought on for a year to bridge the gap (like what was done in ‘04-’06).
Signing older veterans who offer little improvement over internal options or the recently departed young veterans to multi-year deals signals something else entirely.
Nice.
How does this show that there isn’t a consistent plan?
I understand that you don’t like what they are doing, but you’re not providing any evidence that there isn’t a plan. I see a pretty clear plan. I’m interested in an explanation of why I am wrong in what I see.
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I see multiple ideas that could be plans, but taken together are not a plan and are contradictory
Because they’re not actually doing anything for the long-term benefit of the team. I actually like Hernandez, but regardless of what I think of Cuddyer, neither of them does anything to help the 2015-2020 Rockies. And neither of them really makes a difference for next year over the talent that was/is on the roster because they aren’t starting pitchers.
Even if they perform well in their contracts, they have the potential to hamstring the development of the long-term roster while not adding much more than a player from the minors who would cost a fraction of the price.
What is your understanding of the plan as a single, consistent strategy?
You're looking at numbers alone. The FO is not.
The FO is changing the culture here. As I mentioned above, keeping the same players and getting a 10 WAR improvement from 2B and 3B still leaves us as a ,500 ballclub. The FO thought that there was more to change than just fill holes.
Here is what they are doing:
1) Get rid of young, underachieving players. (CDI, Stewart, Smith, etc.)
2) Bring on established, veteran players who perform similar to departing players. (Hernandez, Cuddyer)
3) Bring up young players in an environment of support provided by established veteran players.
This is their strategy. I think they’ve been pretty consistent in their moves this offseason to do this. I think it started with Ubaldo, but the writing was on the wall after the Ubaldo trade for Stewart and Smith, and possibly CDI. Every move since then has been pretty consistent with cleaning house of what the FO felt were failures in one way or another. You can disagree with their evaluations of those players, but they are clearly following through with a plan.
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A team
Divided amongst itself shall fall
by ShadowPenguin on Jan 6, 2012 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
I think the '77 and '78 Yankees
and ’03 Red Sox probably would disagree. Among others, including, probably, every team Pete Rose played on.
so we got Cuddyer for nothing?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Depends on who you ask
Some people think they’re running a summer camp, so Cuddyer is awesome.
Some people think they’re running a business, so Cuddyer is terrible.
Some people think they’re running a baseball team, so Cuddyer is an overpriced, but possibly productive acquisition.
the 03 red sox did fall
and it was oh so awesome.
…until 2004, anyway
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Oops. Good call.
I was at a Nats game in ‘08, sitting near a Red Sox fan who was giving Aaron Boone crap. A few ’03 collapse and 26 pennant jokes later, he got worked up enough to get himself thrown out. It’s amazing how sensitive Sox fans are after two WS in the last eight seasons.
they also like it when you bring up john lackey and carl crawford
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I'd love to read your plan for winning,
with specific details too.
Probably the biggest success of what they have done so far for me is that I, as a ticket buyer, am intrigued by next year and bought tickets for about 23 games. I’m not sure I would have been nearly as interested in seeing the same team as last year with an even younger pitching staff or a team filled with the prospects who aren’t ready or AAAA players biding time until the prospects are ready.
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You haven't actually articulated a plan for winning
you’ve just parroted the FO’s moves as if they were a coherent plan, and called team spirit interesting.
Even if replacing young veterans with older, more expensive veterans to achieve a marginal upgrade made financial or logistical sense, trading the young veterans for players who are not impact at a position of need (2B, 3B, SP, Chatwood does not qualify, LeMahieu does barely) does not make sense.
My plan would have been to:
1) Not re-sign Giambi.
2) Keep CDI and train him as a part time 1B.
3) Split time at C between Rosario and CDI.
4a) Acquire a RH OF to pair with Smith (a number of people could have fit this: Gomes, Hairston, etc.)
4b) If Smith and Wheeler would have done it, trade them for Prado.
4c) If Prado is acquired, sign an OF like DeJesus (who signed for 2yr/$10m).
4d) If no Prado, play Smith with RH complement, and let in-house options fill the IF.
5) Sign Blake, let Blake, LeMahieu, etc. contest for a starting IF spot, and play Prado at the position which the winner of that contest is least adept.
6) If 4a or 4d, use salary savings to sign Kuroda for 1 year/$12m.
7) If 4b or 4c, use young prospects to trade for an available 2-3 starter (preferably a young starter), and go for the playoffs.
The general philosophy being: don’t sign older veterans to long term deals unless you think they’ll put the team over the top.
Aside from the CDI trade, I do think there is something valuable in trimming the fat.
The roster was constricted with an aura of draft status that wasn’t commensurate with results. DOD kind of took a slash and burn route to gutting the roster.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Aside from Stewart
none of them were really underperforming. Smith, Street and CDI were all adding value. Smith and Street didn’t have to stay forever. In fact, I should have added that Street should have been traded (possibly with something) during the season to fill another need (SP, IF, whatever).
I don’t object to the Stewart trade in the above plan.
Well, they still probably need to get rid of Nelson, Herrera, and EY2, they’re free of Reynolds, Weathers, Stewart, Spilborghs.
In reading over your plan, it’s pretty much what I was suggesting earlier this offseason before all these dominoes fell – particularly acquire Prado and have CDI split time at C and 1b. I’d probably keep Giambi for irrational reasons and want more than just Prado for Smith and Wheeler. I also probably would have just kept Stewart but I like trading him and signing Blake too.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Yeah, Wheeler and Smith feels like too much
but I always assumed (though I should have written) that some kind of low-level prospect comes back.
This is incorrect.
They were underperforming the expectations set for them. The world doesn’t work based on some objective values. The team had expectations for them that they did not meet. Again, whether you agree with those expectations is your argument, but you cannot argue that CDI, Smith and Street were meeting the expectations set by the team.
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This is pretty nuanced. It looks like Street was meeting expectations but was somewhat prohibitively expensive. Smith? He seems victim to some sort of Pygmalion effect where he didn’t meet expectations only because he was utilized in a way where he really wasn’t… Still have no clue what to say about CDI other than that he was less a baseball player and more a political prisoner…
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Street was removed from his closer role.
The FO made it clear that they wanted power, in particular HR power from the corners, Smith was not hitting HRs.
CDI was not slugging to the tune of .450–.500 anymore.
These were goals for those players that were made clear by the FO. Were they fair? Maybe not. But those were the expectations.
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My impression is that Smith, at least,
is as much about off-field stuff (focus, accountability, whatever) as on-field stuff.
And I agree about Street. I never got the sense that they were unhappy with him. More that they thought they had better (or at least equal) cheaper options and that they were better off freeing up those resources.
I agree with this
analysis about Street. He wasn’t removed from the closer role due to failure (when he went on the DL, his conversion rate was north of 90%), but because of what you said and also that Tracy did not like “the manner in which he succeeded” – as he said at the time, “too much drama.”
"We made too many wrong mistakes" - Yogi Berra
by purpleJerseygirl on Jan 6, 2012 8:02 PM MST up reply actions
This is the plan?
Your plan is basically to maintain what we had last year (except Giambi) and find a platoon partner for Smith being the only move was not going to make people happy.
I know you also mentioned Prado and Kuroda, but Kuroda is not signing that 1 year/$12 million and Prado isn’t coming here for Wheeler and Smith, if he were he’d be here already.
That leaves your plan with
7) If 4b or 4c, use young prospects to trade for an available 2-3 starter (preferably a young starter),
Which prospects are we trading and for whom? In this scenario, we don’t have anyone who is going to bring us a #2 or #3 starter. That’s why I asked for specifics. It’s nice to criticize, but you need to be realistic about what the possibilities really are.
If you would have rather held pat this year, that’s fine, but that’s what you’re really saying.
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Finally,
you’re really missing the point here. My point is that there is a plan. It has been articulated in the press quite clearly.
You obviously disagree with the plan, but your contention that there isn’t a plan is incorrect. You seem to think that because you disagree with the Rockies plan that it is not a valid plan. Just because someone has an opinion, idea, or philosophy that is different from yours does not make that opinion, idea, or philosophy invalid.
That’s all that I am saying. I was honestly interested in what your plan might be. I disagree with it, but that does not make it incoherent or invalid. Maybe it was the right way to go. The Rockies disagree. I tend to side with the Rockies because I’ve watched other teams do what you suggest and fail miserably leading them to have to get rid of whatever good players that are left in order to rebuild completely.
Again, you might be right, but because you have a different idea doesn’t invalidate opposing ideas.
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Also, I mentioned that I was honestly interested in hearing your plan because I don’t know why you needed to respond with the snark in comments like:
You haven’t actually articulated a plan for winning
you’ve just parroted the FO’s moves as if they were a coherent plan, and called team spirit interesting
and
Also, quarter season ticket packages
aren’t going to staunch the bleeding
It’d be nice to have a discussion free of such thinly veiled condescension.
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yes, it would
from all parties involved.
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2012 7:01 PM MST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Also, quarter season ticket packages
aren’t going to staunch the bleeding from the loss of full season ticket holders, single game sales, and other drops in revenue if the Rockies go on multi-year skid because the team is hamstrung by expensive veterans that stunted the development of cheaper talent.
How many expensive veterans did we sign to long term contracts?
I count one.
Are there more that I’m not aware of? Do you really think that the Cuddyer contract is going to sink the team?
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I understand that you don't like the Cuddyer signing,
but it just seems a bit extreme to think that this signing means:
1) The Rockies are doomed to a multi-year losing skid.
2) The Rockies have no consistent plan for winning.
3) The Rockies are heading into a large loss of season-ticket holders.
We’re talking three years at $10.5 million.
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I think signing Cuddyer shows that DOD is more worried about Helton's health than we've been discussing.
Todd had a great year last year, but he didn’t play in September, and there were some quiet comments that he had been shut down to help his back. Who knows how Todd’s back will be in 2012? And the Rockies don’t have a 1B flying through the minor leagues, and it wouldn’t make sense to bring in someone with a 1B’s offense and then not play him. They brought in Mora in 2010 and Wiggy in 2011; I think Cuddyer’s here in as much of a “what if Todd Helton breaks?” role as a starting OF role.
(Don’t ask me about Giambi’s role on the team.)
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
I don't understand what there is to understand
they think they have a great shot in a few years but think they kind of have a shot now so they are looking to build a good team with competent backups at ever position, while not mortgaging the future.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Right.
This is the other side to this. Though we are rebuilding, we realize that the NL West is winnable even during the rebuilding phase. But we’re still looking to build a team that stays in contention consistently, not a team that shoots for a playoff berth every five years.
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There is no reason we can't win the west this year
not saying we will but this team is not a cellar dweller. Our young pitchers/DLR/Hammel/Slowey/FA are our only real ??? sure 2B could be better but Giants won a WS with Fontenot/Renteria playing everyday A decent season from Todd/Giambi/Blake/Hernandez means we have average to above average hitters at every position. Our bullpen is amazing and likely to stay that way, our bench has decent potential there is no reason to tank this season.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
exactly I like the Rockies proactive approach
the only thing we have given up who was worth their salary for us was Iannetta and with Rosario up why not get value for him.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
And we got a solid pitcher back in Chatwood
Also, you need to consider that we have not finished the off-season yet. There is still the possibility they find a good fit somewhere for Smith, although I think the chances are closer to 50/50. Also, there is the possibility that the free agent market could offer a decent arm still.
thought he was overrating CDI there a little bit…Ramon Hernandez hit about 50 points higher than CDI did. But since that stat isn’t OPS, it doesnt mean anything anymore
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
I knew I forgot something
I even made a clipping
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by Andrew Martin on Jan 6, 2012 9:03 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
As I have stated here
many times, when you draft on a basis of signability and cost these are the results you will see. The poor drafts in the last decade at the top have devastated the ability of this franchise to sustain contention status.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Jan 6, 2012 8:40 AM MST reply actions
Thank you for writing this
It is a great analysis and very informative.
Rockies can't rid themselves of past drafts
unless they rid themselves of those responsible for them. I can only assume he’s gone after need instead of ability – otherwise I have no idea why you pass over Longoria. I know it’s unfair to compare drafts between sports, but this list is somewhat Matt Millenish.
There are plenty of teams out there as bad or worse
even the Rays have their fair share of bonehead picks Tim Beckham may be the sing worse pick of the last ten years not because he is awful but because everyone around him was amazing.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Can you imagine the Rays with Buster Posey behind the plate?
he grew up in GA and went to FSU I am sure they knew how good he was. Wade Townsend anyone? with Ellesbury, Garza, Maybin and McCutchen on the board.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
He's turning it around.
But I think the moment he does show signs of being anywhere near MLB-ready they will move him.
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Right but considering how much talent was on the board
Posey, Hosmer, Lawrie, Smoak, Alonso, Weeks drafting a HS SS is a bit of a punt especially for team that was ready to compete for the first time ever.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
If he keeps progressing
I don’t think they will move him.
Rays badly need a good SS. Brignac can’t hit. SRodriguez is better offensively (but still not great) and below-average defensively. If Beckham’s ready, there’s a hole for him to fill … until Hak Ju Lee arrives.
In my opinon Ichiro is a hall of famer right now
anybody disagree?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Yeah, probably.
11 seasons probably isn’t enough time for a traditional career, but he was elsewhere prior doing the same thing. So I’d say yes.
I think he probably plays three more seasons anyway, and that makes it a moot point. In all likelihood, that will be enough time for him to reach 3K hits, unless his production continues to nosedive.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I don't know the whole HOF thing like you guys do
But Ichiro strikes me as such a one-off that he may be relatively immune to hitting the regulation markers, stats etc. As the first world class Japanese import his fame has been immense and he’s made a huge contribution to the game by the way he plays as well as by who he is. I think he’s a lock.
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not to mention he has been one of the better players of this generation. Wish he would have played somewhere else so I could have watched him more. Cannon for an arm, fast, and could just plain hit
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
I agree fully on his immunity to career benchmarks. Like I said, he’s very likely already in. I just think it’s probably a non-point because he’ll hit the major benchmark anyway.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
i don’t know he is 38 and in the last year of his contract. He would have to have 3 191 hit seasons yet to hit 3000.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Yep, 3 more seasons would put him at 40. His most recent season is the only one that he’s not reached 200 hits, so I think it’s probably doable. Like I said, if he nosedives, he won’t, but if he has a bounce-back season, he’s probably a slam dunk for an extension and hitting the mark.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
topic came up on Hot Stove Live the other nigth and was curious as to what some people thought.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
frankly i can't imagine there being a legitimate argument against him
arenado: it's Rockie for future
I think he should on the Jackie Robinson platform
not as meaninful culturally but definitely has been an ambassador and elite hitter
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I'm going to get killed for this,
but Ichiro is in my Hall of Fame.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
by TomCat009 on Jan 6, 2012 11:10 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
b-b-w-a-a???
arenado: it's Rockie for future
let's kick the horse skeleton just a little more
“Since 1901, 4,043 pitchers have thrown >90IP in the major leagues. Reynolds’ ERA of 7.47 ranks sixth-worst, all-time.” http://t.co/jW12NckY
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 10:20 AM MST via Android app reply actions
ouch.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
wow that is bad
I hadn’t read that Friedman quote about them planning on taking Lincecum assuming the Rockies took Longoria. As Sullivan wrote, its really interesting to imagine what baseball would have been like had we taken Longoria. Maybe Reynolds falls to the giants?
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
i don't think anyone takes reynolds in the first round
but i bet neither lincecum nor kershaw ends up in their current home if we take longoria
arenado: it's Rockie for future
revisionist history
Greg Reynolds was certainly a first rounder, just not good value at #2 overall
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he'd be a late in the round at least
that draft was ridiculously deep
arenado: it's Rockie for future
he was expected to go in the top ten picks
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 2:38 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah Sullivan even says that he would have gotten drafted pretty quick
What’s so…well I won’t say “tragic”, but sad about Reynolds’ story is that it’s not like he wasn’t an extremely talented pitcher at the time he was drafted. Even though he wasn’t supposed to go second overall, he was supposed to go pretty quickly. He was one of those safe college picks, a starter with a mid-90s fastball who could go on the fast-track.
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Hahahahaha that is awful.
I'M SORRY I WAS EVER MAD AT YOU, ROCKIES! COME BACK TO ME! I LOVE YOU!!
by prettyinpurple on Jan 6, 2012 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
OT:
For all your OOTP players, the Amazon AppStore free app of the day is a remote desktop application.
Can be very useful for picking up your OOTP program from your home computer when you are out and about. Its for both windows and mac, but the mobile app is only free on android phones today.
OOH. this is great
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 10:49 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
well i think it is for iphone, but i dont think its free.
amazon app store is an android exclusive thing. they do a free app daily.
i launched mine today, works GREAT.
(can even run The Old Republic)
Rizzo and arm for Cashner and a High A OF?... Really?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/cubs-acquire-anthony-rizzo.html#disqus_thread
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
that just leaves me going hmmmmmm
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
Seems a bit collusionary
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
One of the Pads top Prospects for that?
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
A 25 year old pitcher with a shoulder injury and a High A OF who has never hit a HR
for a 22yo 1B coming off a AAA line of .331/.404/.652 with 26 HR in 360 AB?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
hahaha WTF
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
Which begs the question ...
Why weren’t we in on that deal? I know trading within the division and all, but if that’s the price I am sure we could afford to “overpay” … have to say, something just doesn’t seem right here.
plus Chad Tracy in AAA why would we want Rizzo
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Because if the second half of 2011 is any indication
Todd Helton’s career will be over soon and we still lack a viable replacement (the most likely candidates in our system, Matthes/Parker, don’t even currently play 1B; Chad Tracy will forever be AAAA filler). Rizzo could use additional time in the minors, so it’s not like he’s being totally blocked as Alonso was in Cincy.
I don't know.
I hear that Tracy is a special player.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
he gets his specialness from his dad.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Jim Tracy's phone rings
Jim Tracy: Hello?
Chad Tracy: Dad! Special!
JT: Oh so special son.
CT: Ssssssspppppeeeeecccciiiaaaaallllll
JT: Especially special
CT: Oh Dad, I’m so happy, its special.
.JT: SPECIAL!
Avalance 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.
by Thnikkaman on Jan 6, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
haha that makes me think of Jim Tracey as Timmy from South park
and the only thing he can say is special
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by purplesocks on Jan 6, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Just dial
1-303-773-2425
That number again is:
1-303-SPE-CIAL
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Kyle Shannahan is a special coach too
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I think Dan Reeves' son was some sort of 'special' coach for the Broncos too.
The off-season sucks.
That is all.
That right there, that was sarcasm
of course I would love to have Rizzo and bet that if the Padres were in the AL we could have got him for say White and Adames
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I understand but Chad Tracy is not the answer to anything
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Who is the most special AAAA 1B in the Rockies organization?
Answer: Chad Tracy.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Jan 6, 2012 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
Jim Tracy's head would explode with all those strikeouts
Soriano, Stewart, Rizzo, and Soto? That’s gotta be 700 Ks right there.
No way they give us Rizzo
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
according to Renck he tore his PCL
Rizzo tore up PCL. But a lot of players do. Has long swing. Needs to make adjustments to succeed in the bigs. Will get chance w Cubs
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
He tore his Pacific Coast League?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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a lot of players do, its okay
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
posterior cruciate ligament?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
Plum Creek Timber
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
PCT?
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
NYSE: PCL
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
hahaha lol
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:50 PM MST up reply actions
I tend to side with Renck here,
and I think that the Padres know something about Rizzo that isn’t clear to us.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Jan 6, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
this is the same GM that traded Brett Anderson, and Cargo+++
for Haren, Carlos Quentin for Chris Carter, and Alberto Callaspo for Billy Buckner I don’t think Byrnes likes prospects
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I think Epstein might know Rizzo a little better than Byrnes
PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays
he has an emotional attatchment to him
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
Hoyer would know him more.
he has now been a part of the org that drafted him, and both teams that traded for him
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 1:31 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
monster K rate
very ian stewart-esque
arenado: it's Rockie for future
How does a long swing cause a torn PCL?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 6, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
Cubs.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 6, 2012 3:34 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
things aren’t going as planned in Boras camp
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
Yep
Cubs acquired 1B Anthony Rizzo and RHP Zach Cates from the Padres in exchange for RHP Andrew Cashner and OF Kyung-Min Na.
The Cubs were viewed as a logical landing spot for Rizzo ever since the deal that landed Yonder Alonso in San Diego, as the Northsiders need a first baseman of the future and president of baseball operations Theo Epstein drafted him when he was with the Red Sox. Leaving Petco for Wrigley Field is great news for Rizzo’s fantasy prospects, as Wrigley is favorable for left-handed batters and he should get a chance to start right away.
Casner is going to get quite a fantasy bump too.
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Wow shoulder injury
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Cashner, 25, has a 4.29 ERA with 8.0 K/9 and 4.7 BB/9 in 65 innings over the course of two seasons with the Cubs. The 2008 first rounder spent much of the 2011 season on the 60-day disabled list with a strained right rotator cuff, but returned to make six appearances in September. He’ll be under team control through 2016.
Sure, it’s “just a strain”, but when you start talking rotator cuff problems, I start running the other way…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Jan 6, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
No S why would you move a top 50 prospect for a 25 yo guy with the
word rotator cuff thrown around?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
One hell of a price for a setup man ...
Corey Brock of MLB.com reports that the Padres plan to use new acquisition Andrew Cashner as a setup man for Huston Street initially, with a move to rotation possibly coming later.
It’s not a bad idea, as Cashner missed most of 2011 with shoulder issues and the Padres don’t want to overburden him. It’s doubtful they would deal Anthony Rizzo for a reliever, though, so we’d expect Cashner to get a chance to start eventually. The former first-round pick boasts a 2.82 ERA and 161/80 K/BB ratio in 182 career minor league innings.
Yeah … I know … he is headed to the rotation eventuall … if the shoulder isn’t frayed.
AAAAAHHHH I am so glad not to be a Padres fan right now
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
Acquire all the marginal IF'ers!
Rockies signed INF Brendan Harris to a minor league contract.
Harris spent all of the 2011 season at Triple-A in the Orioles organization, producing an ugly .225/.282/.331 batting line with 10 homers. The Rockies will have a competition in spring training for the third base job, but Harris almost surely will be on the outside looking in.
another guy I wouldn't have minded adding five years ago.
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 12:20 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I would have rather acquired he and Hardy last year
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
I would rather save the ink and paper and forget it ever happened
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jan 6, 2012 12:22 PM MST up reply actions
We signed Harris like two and a half weeks ago
RockiesRoster.com - Your best source for organizational contract and transactions information.
"The highest form of human excellence is to question oneself and others." - Socrates
~WolfMarauder
by Greg Stanwood on Jan 6, 2012 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
It's amazing to me that with the Rays looking for a 1B
and a boatload of pitching, that the Pads dealt Rizzo to gamble on pitching prospect with a shoulder injury. Seems like they could’ve gotten better pitching from the Rays.
the rays could have whupped that package and not blinked
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
hisashi iwakuma signs with seattle for $1.5 mil + incentives
it seems oakland just wanted to keep him away from everyone else last year
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Great article on ESPN.com
About one of our promising draft picks and his current battle with Parkinson’s
Oodalolly!
by Saint Weezy on Jan 6, 2012 3:20 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
Petrick?
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 3:28 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Really sad story (but as Todd puts it, "inspiring").
I remember feeling the same about Petrick when we traded him as I do about Ian now. I used to rip him for not living up to his potential and I feel terrible about it now… it’s hard to know what is going on behind the scenes.
by purplerowtroller on Jan 6, 2012 3:39 PM MST up reply actions
Great article/story
He is a class act 100%
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
o/t: went to a new Korean BBQ place today.
so good….so much spicy cabbage
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Jan 6, 2012 4:01 PM MST reply actions
This is what I miss most about Hawaii
I have not found a Korean BBQ place in California that comes remotely close to the places on the island.
Die-hard Rockies fan since 1993.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz
My blerg
Sorry if already posted: Krieger leaving the Post to join KOA full-time
Was really hoping for a stint from him as a Rockies beat writer, but it’s not to be.
I do enjoy his discussions of the Rockies when I happen to catch them on KOA. But I have a hard time listening to that station until game time.
Well that sucks.
While I enjoy listening to him with Dave Logan, I really don’t like reading any other Post columnist.
This sucks.
I'M SORRY I WAS EVER MAD AT YOU, ROCKIES! COME BACK TO ME! I LOVE YOU!!
by prettyinpurple on Jan 6, 2012 5:02 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
List of ‘readable Denver sports columnists with a functioning brain’ now that Krieger’s moving on:
…
…
LOL NOPE
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Troy Renck feels sad....
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
He’s a beat writer, not a columnist. I generally like the Post’s beat writers. Renck works his ass off and I think is a much better writer than he was when he started. Dater’s a good writer but I get why some diehard Avs fans don’t like him much. The Broncos and Nuggets guys/gals do fine, too.
Columnists for the Post are now Paige and Kizsla. Yikes. Maybe I oughta send them my resume…
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around the whole time." - Jim Bouton
Yikes, indeed.
“Paige and Kiszla” sounds like an awful, degenerative disease.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
There are those who call me..."Skip".
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Jan 6, 2012 9:45 PM MST up reply actions
probably is
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
reads like it, too
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Please
you can say you write for SBNation Denver and see how it goes
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
Random thought: Is it me...
…or are the Marlins a Milton Bradley signing away from being one of the funniest sideshows in years?
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
There are those who call me..."Skip".
I snark because I care.
agreed
so much potential there
arenado: it's Rockie for future
Even SPF would find them all bats*** crazy.
That’s some good crazy right there.
Paleface Destro: The Resident Smartass of the Ubaldo Lovers Club
There are those who call me..."Skip".
I snark because I care.
by Paleface Destro on Jan 6, 2012 7:52 PM MST up reply actions
JFK's Quote of the Day:
“(Ty) Cobb is a prick. But he sure can hit. God Almighty, that man can hit.” Source: Big Sticks (William Curran) ~George Herman Ruth
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
JFK
angels sign jorge cantu
so we can cross them off as world series contenders now
arenado: it's Rockie for future
we should sign brandon webb on a minor-league deal with an invite to spring training
nothing but upside there
arenado: it's Rockie for future
expect his pitch speed.
45 today, 44 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. 2011-we shall never see you again. 2012-World Series Champions.
I expect it to be low
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 6, 2012 11:52 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Would you be interested in Rick Porcello?
45 today, 44 tomorrow is how many days remain until Pitchers and Catchers report for Spring Training.
Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. 2011-we shall never see you again. 2012-World Series Champions.
sure
but he’s under tigers control through 2015
arenado: it's Rockie for future
his highest average FBv was 88.7 mph, and that was his rookie season of 2003
and he was well on his way to a hall of fame career with that
arenado: it's Rockie for future
that's different than the 82 he topped out at in bp sessions
"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Jan 7, 2012 8:48 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
according to some sources
arenado: it's Rockie for future
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