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Saturday Rockpile: Carlos Gonzalez vs. Justin Upton, Plus Other Things that Will Make You Mad

'What, everyone else can have egregious home/road splits but I can't?' (Photo by Doug Pensinger/Getty Images)

As I was preparing to write my typical Saturday morning links piece, I came across Eric Karabell's 2011 Fantasy Baseball Top 100 on ESPN.com. It's an Insider-only piece, so I won't share too much from it, but there was something in it that made me bang my head on my desk far too many times than a somewhat-sane person should. Here it is:

7. Justin Upton, OF, Arizona Diamondbacks: A future MVP, and it could be this season.

16. Carlos Gonzalez, OF, Colorado Rockies: Don't feel guilty at all that a good portion of his numbers are supplied by a friendly home ballpark.

Let me preface this rant by saying that I like Justin Upton. I enjoy watching him play, and I honestly do believe that he is one of the top players in the game. This rant is not an indictment on him, but rather an indictment on baseball writers everywhere. This is not a new topic, either; it has been brought up a multitude of times, both by people in our community and elsewhere. But, I feel compelled to write about it, so hear me out.

I'm sure by now you know where I'm going with this, but I'll continue anyway: Gonzalez - career .744 OPS away from home = PRODUCT OF COORS FIELD. GET THIS GUY OUT OF HERE. FRAUD. Upton - career .749 OPS away from home = FUTURE MVP. BEST YOUNG CORNER OUTFIELDER IN THE GAME. FUTURE HALL OF FAMER.

Again, I'm not taking away from Upton; there are several reasons why he's more highly regarded. He's just 24 years old, can consistently hit baseballs further than almost anyone else on the planet, and was a former number one pick. Gonzalez, meanwhile, was an amateur free agent from Venezuela who didn't find his footing in the big leagues until he was the same age as Upton was in 2011 when he was an MVP candidate, and was bounced out of two organizations before achieving stardom. Still, that doesn't make the media's perception of guys in Colorado any fairer or more accurate, and the same can be said about guys who have the same problem who call hitter's parks not named Coors Field their home. And, in case I haven't already made this clear enough, it's not Upton being considered the better player that bugs me - it's the fact that NOBODY says ANYTHING about his dramatic splits. Well, and that the Coors Field stigma is always going to be present. We're seeing it now with Larry Walker, who isn't getting much respect among HOF voters (despite posting a career .865 road OPS), and we saw it last season when Todd Helton's HOF candidacy became a topic of national discussion (despite posting a career .869 road OPS). Hell, we still hear about it with Troy Tulowitzki (although mostly from ignorant fans, which are the spawn of bad sportswriters) and his .808 road OPS (which has actually been up in the .870 range over the past two seasons).

As Rockies fans, we're used to it, but can anything be done to change the overstated perception? The agonizing thing to think about is that, in my time as a fan, the only thing I can think of that has gotten people to shut up is the success Matt Holliday has had ever since leaving Denver. That's the cruelty of being a Rockies fan - our favorite players will likely never be appreciated for how good they really are until they leave.

A few more links after the jump...

Star-divide

The Denver Post has a few new stories, including one about the aforementioned CarGo, who apparently bulked up during the offseason and looks like an absolute chiseled beast. Also, Casey Blake is profiled by Patrick Saunders. Blake will be expected to contribute while bouncing back from a neck injury, albeit as a bridge to fill the gap between now and the arrival of the golden child.

MLB.com's Joey Nowak writes that Jim Tracy is trying to instill a more relaxed culture at spring camp this season. Talking is one thing; not benching a guy for an inferior player after an 0-for-4 is another. Hopefully, the skipper is able to learn from past over-evaluations and failures, and maybe the relaxed atmosphere thing helps. I don't know.

Comment 155 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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1 week from today

The Rockies play their first game. I don’t know about you, but I can’t f’ing wait to see a lineup card.

by mkorpal on Feb 25, 2012 8:05 AM MST reply actions  

This doesn't help

me much as I was supposed to go watch a Mines game today. The thing is it snowed Thursday and while the field drains pretty well they canceled the weekend series. I’m sad and disappointed and now I have to wait another week to watch baseball.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 9:46 AM MST up reply actions  

I went to two UNC games today

Bears didn’t do so well, got swept by North Dakota State, 11-2 and 18-4.

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Feb 25, 2012 6:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Sweet (well sort of)

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 7:27 PM MST up reply actions  

If it's any consolation

Karabell’s whole list is moronic.

"If I stay healthy, I have a chance to collect 3,000 hits and 1,000 errors."
~George Brett

PRMLB Baltimore Orioles
THIS IS BIRDLAND

by Jason Wells on Feb 25, 2012 8:27 AM MST reply actions  

I had a dream about nolan arenado last night

It was about baseball. Specifically this season. He got called up, took the 3b job and hit .330 for the year.

by Purple Row Troll on Feb 25, 2012 9:02 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

I'm with you BK

I’m sure my forehead is scarred from this subject

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 25, 2012 9:18 AM MST via Android app reply actions  

At least you still have your hair! :-\

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Feb 25, 2012 10:00 AM MST up reply actions  

Sticking with the fantasy theme ...

THC posted his keeper rankings (evaluating players equally over the next four seasons):

3) Justin Upton
5) Tulowitzki
12) Carlos Gonzalez (#5 among all OF’ers)

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbdk2k12_keeperranks

by Traindogger on Feb 25, 2012 9:30 AM MST reply actions  

pretty huge gap between our second guy on that list and our third.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 25, 2012 9:40 AM MST up reply actions  

For some reason I can't

stomach Pluckton being ahead of Tulo on the rankings

Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.

by Colsportsfan on Feb 25, 2012 9:52 AM MST up reply actions  

age and SB's

Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006

by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

But what about position?

If you don’t pick up Upton, there’s going to be another OF who’s also pretty good. Pass on Tulo, and who’s next?

Altar Boy in the Church of Santo Ubaldo
"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
"... One order of buffalo wings, please..." -Yokel, after July 30, 2011

by Yokel on Feb 25, 2012 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I'd guess that Tulo's injury history factors into this

still a bit unfair though, as quite a few of the events that have sent him to the DL have been of the freakish variety

by steakman on Feb 25, 2012 12:18 PM MST up reply actions  

cutting hand on broken bat, getting hit in the wrist…

Staring out the window, waiting for spring.

by Zatch on Feb 25, 2012 3:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Quad injuries...

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 5:43 PM MST up reply actions  

OF isn't as deep as it used to be

and while i’m not really a believer, hanley is a great rebound candidate

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Hanley is a 3B really always was

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 25, 2012 1:24 PM MST up reply actions  

he'll get some games in at SS when reyes gets hurt

be enough to maintain eligibility, which he already has in yahoo

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:25 PM MST up reply actions  

probably but for the next 3 years?

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 25, 2012 1:29 PM MST up reply actions  

i know yahoo lets you keep whatever eligibility you had from the season before, so it's definitely possible if not probable

looks i thought his contract was up after 13 but it’s not until 14, which would have helped if he moved back to SS elsewhere

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Its just for one year though. He needs to start in 5 games at SS to have it for next year or appear in 10 games there.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

that's it?

i thought the yahoo requirements were steeper. then yeah, i definitely think hanley could maintain it for 3 years

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Yea thats it.

Its like Martin Prado. Last year, he was 1b 2b 3b and OF qualified. this year, he dont have the 2b because Uggla took over there.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions  

starlin castro is also a good bet,

because there’s plenty of room for him to develop power and we know what he can already do.

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:39 PM MST up reply actions  

I think Cargo gets overlooked some because he’s the #2 on this team. Were he on a team where he was the best offensive player, he’d be ranked higher.

I definitely don’t think the two are that far apart. Maybe I give Upton the nod because he has been more consistent from the middle of the order while Cargo seems to do better when he’s leading off but I think Upton is a weak fielder and Cargo good. So I don’t know…

Tulo behind Upton….only reason I see that is because of Tulo’s injury history but otherwise I’d take Tulo any second of the day.

by Adam2011 on Feb 25, 2012 3:05 PM MST up reply actions  

upton is an above-average to good fielder

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 3:07 PM MST up reply actions  

The defensive metrics actually like him even better than Cargo

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:11 PM MST up reply actions  

But the defensive metrics also seem to hate Rockies OFs in general for some reason

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions  

that's due to the way UZR assigns the zones in coors

cargo rates positively in both TZL and DRS, and of course the fans scouting reports

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 6:10 PM MST up reply actions  

It seems like I watch him make a lot of terrible reads when I watch him play causing him to botch plays that should be made.

by Adam2011 on Feb 25, 2012 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

You should also mention

that the dry non-humidified thin air at Chase Field probably inflates numbers more than Coors Field, and yet the media almost always tend to forget that somehow

Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.

by Colsportsfan on Feb 25, 2012 9:44 AM MST reply actions  

The thing I don't get is...

When somebody mentions “Product of Coors Field”, they tend to forget that our hitters get to play in Petco Park, AT&T Park, and Dodger’s Stadium. To me considering everything… it’s a wash, and a player’s overall statistics should be taken with no bias.

Most of our hitter’s home and road splits tell the story.

"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."

by GreenField on Feb 25, 2012 9:45 AM MST reply actions  

Dodgers Stadium, Petco Park, and ATT Park....

Ranked 22nd, 28th, and 30th in runs scored last season.

"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."

by GreenField on Feb 25, 2012 9:48 AM MST up reply actions  

Giants also

had the worst offensive team in the NL (and maybe the majors, but I’d have to check that)

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

True...

But having a decent offensive team might bring them from 30th to…… 25th? lol

"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."

by GreenField on Feb 25, 2012 9:55 AM MST up reply actions  

home team's production has little effect on park factors

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

yep

It’s about relative performance of teams in one park versus another. If the Giants have a bad offense, it doesn’t make the PF lower, because they take that bad offense everywhere.

"Momentum is a fickle love." - Scott Hastings
Die-hard Rockies fan since seven years after Jamie Moyer's MLB debut.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz

by EmersonCR on Feb 25, 2012 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

This is why I am not against having a couple of flyball pitchers around...

The number of times we play in pitcher’s paradises. I could see Outman/Mosocoso/ Moyer being used for a west coast swing when trying to limit innings for POM/ Nicasio/ Chatwood/ White.

"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana

by Oldfoagie on Feb 25, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Park factors exist

throwing them out would be silly, as numbers are affected one way or the other depending on the ballpark. What’s frustrating is how it is completely de rigeur for the whole media to asterix ALL hitters from Colorado whilst it never gets brought up for guys like Upton and Hamilton who, great as they are, also benefit from favourable park factors but never have that asterix held against them.

Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006

by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

To further this point

I think a lot of it comes down to that it’s kind of our identity as a team to the national media. Your east coast based guys like Karabell don’t follow the Rockies as an organisation closely, so when they have to mention them one of the easiest things to write is LOLCOORZ and know that 80% of their readership are going to nod their heads in agreement.

Even now, I remember a couple of years ago when the Mariners came to Coors Field going onto Lookout Landing and there was a sizeable thread commenting that they hate this ballpark and even that they should skip Brandon Morrow’s start at Coors to avoid ruining his confidence (kind of how we think of pitching prospects at the Springs I guess)

Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006

by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 9:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I've seen this as well...

and of course going from Seattle’s ballpark to Coors is gonna make a difference.

"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."

by GreenField on Feb 25, 2012 9:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Jose Lopez disagrees...

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions  

I think what bugs me

about this whole thing is how much our pitchers do NOT get regarded for pitching there while the hitters are vastly underrated. This was an even bigger deal before 2004 (both sides) but today it still happens and that is what bothers me the most.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

lolmariners

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Humidor doesn’t change the fact that Coors’s outfield is huge and continues making the stadium an offensive haven.

But I do agree that it does feel as though as other teams’ players are as quickly asterisked for their production when they play in a band box? How many fewer home runs would Ryan Howard have if he didn’t play at Citizens Bank Park were a pop up into left field ends up in the stands?

by Adam2011 on Feb 25, 2012 3:35 PM MST up reply actions  

The big outfield means that Coors is a different kind of offensive park than most hitters' parks.

That may be a reason for journalists (and sabermetricians) to put an asterisk beside it.

And the Rockies still haven’t figured out exactly how to deal with its differences from other parks (both hitters and pitchers have to figure out how to adjust between home and road, even when the road games are in hitters’ parks at sea level).

Doesn’t mean the players should be disregarded because they play here, but I think there’s a reason to think about Coors differently than most offensive parks.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Feb 25, 2012 3:47 PM MST up reply actions  

JFK's Quote of the Day:

“I know I’m the world’s worst fielder, but who gets paid for fielding? There isn’t a great fielder in baseball getting the kind of dough I get paid for hitting.” ~Dick Stuart Source: Yaz (Carl Yastrzemski)

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 9:52 AM MST reply actions  

Its been said on here before.

Let’s make it an even playing field and install humidor’s at all the stadium’s. I dont care how muggy it is gets in Florida. Hell, the humidor may actually dry the balls out some.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 10:06 AM MST reply actions  

Rec'in dis Rockpile

Great job BK…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 10:24 AM MST reply actions  

Maybe we just only discuss stats in terms of Road stats...

…but then Rockies hitters will get unfairly compared for NOT playing road games at “Coors Canaveral” or whatever other nickname or tired perception continually trotted out by lazy-ass journalists.

Baseball, BBQ, Bourbon, Blackjack, Beer, (B)orse Racing

by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 25, 2012 11:06 AM MST reply actions  

I'm kind of curious.

But doesn’t the ball FLY at Chase Field too? Like it used to at Coors Canaveral? Why isn’t there a Chase Field Factor?

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 11:26 AM MST reply actions  

More people like snakes more than rocks?

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

because pre-humidor, Coors was insane. It was so much different than any other park. Now with the humidor, Coors is merely an above average offensive park, not much different than TX or AZ, but that original perception of the park still clouds current views.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 25, 2012 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

Then they need to come watch a game.

I bet the fans are alot better than them though

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Coors is still a well above offensive stadium. Less home runs but overall offensive production is still way up due to the size of the outfield.

by Adam2011 on Feb 25, 2012 3:36 PM MST up reply actions  

True

but according to ESPN, Coors is the second most offensive park in MLB. Nobody has a problem with calling it a hitters park, its the reputation that it is so over the top that it is in a different category is the problem. If the media says something about the Coors Field Effect the question is why isn’t there a Rangers Ballpark Effect or a Fenway Park Effect. Or at the other end of the scale an AT&T, Petco, Tropicana Park effect for pitchers. If Rockies batters has it held against them that they hit at Coors Field half the time, why isn’t it held against Lincecum for pitching at AT&T?

by 3nS on Feb 25, 2012 4:10 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

oh absolutely. It’s just gone from being in a class of it’s own to ‘still a big time offensive park but really not that different than TX or AZ’

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 25, 2012 5:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I received an email from a friend today:

“I got three seats in left field for when the Brewers come to town this year and I’m taking three signs with me:

In 2007.
Troy did it honestly.
How did you earn it?"

Ice cold, man

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 11:57 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Darrrrrrrylllllll Darrryllllllllll

Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006

by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 12:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I'll be there on 8/13.

I will boo lustily.

Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!

by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 12:09 PM MST up reply actions  

At least Braun made one fact perfectly clear...

…he had NEVER had an STD!

So there…

Baseball, BBQ, Bourbon, Blackjack, Beer, (B)orse Racing

by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 25, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Nice Rec'd

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

That's too funny. Flec'd

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:43 PM MST up reply actions  

I know Fed-Ex locations!

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

hahahahahahah
Jason Grimsley snuck into the guy’s basement and swapped Braun’s clean pee with the roided up pee.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

What you can do to dispell the Coor's field effect myth.

A Rowbot grass roots movement of sorts is needed. Make an issue of it in comments to national media outlets that promote the myth. Another thing is the person in the best place to discredit the myth is Troy Renck. Purple Row might show him how he is doing a disservice to the Rockies by not doing more to debunk the myth. How are the Rockies suppose to get top talent if the Coors Field Myth is going to be used against them and Troy Renck doesn’t do anything to discredit the myth and help the person in his HOF arguments? How are the Rockies suppose to get top pitching if the pitchers are afraid of the Coors Field Myth? I suggest calling Renck out to do his part to discredit the myth with facts and figures.

by 3nS on Feb 25, 2012 12:14 PM MST reply actions  

I think the best way to dispel the Coors myths

would be to win the World Series here.

That would be a start, at least.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Feb 25, 2012 12:16 PM MST reply actions  

We started getting much more love after our 2007 run. I’ve said it before, but until we’re consistently good, we’re going to continue getting little respect (which makes sense I guess) and being written about in terms of these outdated, shorthand notions (which is less fair)… Basically, the mainstream isn’t going to take a closer at us and be more level-headed in their views until the club/team actually forces them to.

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by Resolution on Feb 25, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions  

This. Respect is earned

When the Rockies put up a 5-year span when they’re at least in serious contention for the playoffs every year, this kind of thing will stop. Coors Field will still be viewed as a hitter-friendly park, but there are a lot of those. Right now the media outside Denver just don’t pay much attention to the Rockies. They don’t look at the splits too closely, or the pre- and post- humidor numbers. And frankly most of the time the Rockies don’t give them much reason to start looking.

I love the Rockies, but outside Colorado, they’re perceived as a very streaky team that got ridiculously hot once in 2007, plays at a freaky high ballpark, and is otherwise a pretty unremarkable middle-of-the pack NL ballclub in a fly-over state. Like it or not, this perception will continue until the Rockies find a way to end it by putting together a great team for several years.

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by RoarFrom112 on Feb 25, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

You might be right

In fact you probably are. But that doesn’t make it right. It is the job of these reporters to take the time to learn and bother to understand the facts. It isn’t the job of a team to take media members by the throats and shake them until they start paying attention. The fact of the matter is that reporting like what BK quoted is seriously deficient, substandard and inaccurate. It isn’t (or shouldn’t be) excused by the fact that the writer isn’t writing about the Yankess, Red Sox or Phillies, but just some small market team that hasn’t won the world series.

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

the reason no one mentions the splits

is because arizona and texas both have traditions of good pitching as well, so it’s not perceived that nobody can pitch there

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were not good pitching

they were amazing and could pitch anywhere.

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by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

preaching to the choir

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I sing in the choir

rarely does the preacher preach to us

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"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
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by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 1:58 PM MST up reply actions  

.

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 2:00 PM MST up reply actions  

Dang, I must have missed that somehow

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
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by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 2:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Texas has a history of good pitching?

Other than Nolan Ryan at the end of his career, how many truly great pitchers did they have in the first 36 years of that franchise?

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

well, i meant a relatively recent history

but historially, kenny rogers, kevin brown, charlie hough, bobby witt, bert blyleven, and ferguson jenkins all had productive time in texas

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

There were some productive seasons yes

But I’m not sure I’d think of all of them when we are talking about great pitchers in a franchise history.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:01 PM MST up reply actions  

but that's partially because they've only been in texas since 1972

and their good pitchers have all more and better time elsewhere. not every franchise gets a bob feller or a lefty grove to have a great career in one place

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 3:06 PM MST up reply actions  

But isn't that

at least part of what having a tradition of great pitching is all about?

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:08 PM MST up reply actions  

partly yeah

which is why i had in mind recent times, with developing of of guys like wilson, feliz, harrison, et al

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 3:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I would agree that they are developing something that has a chance to be a great pitching franchise

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

additionally, no one really made their "claim to fame" except maybe kenny rogers

like johnson and schilling did in arizona

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 3:09 PM MST up reply actions  

For most of their existence

they actually had a reputation much like the Rockies. Could always crush the ball, but never get the pitching they needed to win.

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 3:18 PM MST up reply actions  

This is how they pretty much existed in my mind as well

But even this didn’t stop individuals like ARod from getting respect and winning the MVP there.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:21 PM MST up reply actions  

.435/.404 H/R wOBA, 26/21 H/R HR

not a big difference, and only 20 points larger than the league average H/R wOBA split that year

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 6:29 PM MST up reply actions  

interesting a-rod fact;

not only is there an outside shot for him to retire as the all-time HR leader, if he plays to the end of his contract he’ll likely retire as the all-time leader in batter strikeouts, RBI, and R, as well as near the top in TB, XBH, and H. wow.

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 6:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Sadly, I think it would be

asterisked forever :(

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

If the Rockies couldn't win a road game in the World Series, it might be.

So I take it back: I want to see the Rockies win the last game of the World Series at home, after winning at least two games on the road.

And I want the Rockies to win the NL West.

And a pony.

"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.

by glaucophane on Feb 25, 2012 12:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Well who doesn't want a pony?

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 12:41 PM MST up reply actions  

I hate anybody who had a pony when they were a kid

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

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by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

What if we had a full grown horse?

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Or a quarter horse....

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I would take a quarter of him.

His right arm is the one I want.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm even going to go into the

appendage discussion LOL

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:03 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not going there.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Well, I was talking more about ponies per se...

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Okay well I never had a pony....

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

"We want a pony. We want a pony"

Torchwood reference

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

we all get a little pony

or whatever Cargo is going to be called this year

Staring out the window, waiting for spring.

by Zatch on Feb 25, 2012 4:01 PM MST up reply actions  

We could just refer to our eight offensive starters as the clydesdales if they end up carrying the team.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I didn't but my next door neighbors had horses.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:57 PM MST up reply actions  

I had a pony back in poland!

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions  

Was it a beautiful pony?

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

she was the prettiest pony in all of krakow!

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

My sister

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

that right there, is a goddamned thoroughbred.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions  

But it works right?

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeahhhhhh

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Not in my head

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Was this your reaction when you saw this picture Cat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_S5cXbXe-4&feature=related

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Heh

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:49 PM MST up reply actions  

you know she's not actually a cat, right?

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:51 PM MST up reply actions  

icwydt

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 1:52 PM MST up reply actions  

was hoping you would

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Yea I know

But it makes it so much easier to find stuff on Youtube.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:54 PM MST up reply actions  

you've earned yourself a nice little rec there

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Thanks

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions  

Yep.
the Orioles just put out a press release describing how they have gotten together with the Pirates and designed a baseball stadium for children and special-needs adults.

their new shared spring training facility will be located 20 minutes outside of Fort Lauderdale.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:45 PM MST reply actions  

Wow.

The Pirates leaving Bradenton is almost as big as the Dodgers leaving Vero.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Wait.

This is a joke?

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by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:54 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh.

Ok. No new facilities. Phew.

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by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:56 PM MST up reply actions  

.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 3:30 PM MST up reply actions  

If you enjoy baseball history

or just like to revisit outstanding postseason moments, MLB network is about to show “Postseason to Remember” which looks back at 1986 – Probably the only season since the postseason was more than just the World Series where every series was a classic.

Time: 4 ET / 2MT / 1PT

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 1:55 PM MST reply actions  

2002, 2003, 2011

and 1998 :D

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

No

I’d have a hard time calling either LCS in 02 a classic, the first two series Texas was involved in last season were not too great, and 98 completely sucked as not a single series went the distance.

03 is probably the only one I could argue as being better than 86. I don’t know if all four LDS’s were classics but there was so much great baseball that season there’s an argument to be made. However, I still believe that 1986 was the only postseason where EVERY series was a classic. (Obviously it was either before the Wild Card though because there was only three (instead of seven) series.)

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:19 PM MST up reply actions  

either easier

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions  

counterpoint:

matt moore starting game 1 of the ALDS

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

That doesn't make it a classic

Just as neither the 1915 or 1916 World Series were classic when Babe Ruth made his hitting and pitching debut.

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

nah

it was still awesome though

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 2:25 PM MST up reply actions  

they're doing it with a carter tribute in mind, right?

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 1:59 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not really sure

Although you never really need an excuse to show games from that postseason

Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.

by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Nonsense: Does anyone watch "Fringe" here?

Because I just have to say “Oh. My. God!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 2:03 PM MST reply actions  

I'll say meh.

"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto

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by Russ Oates on Feb 25, 2012 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Did you watch last night? I was pretty stunned.

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by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes.

Ever since season 2 of 24 when George Mason flew the plane with the nuke waiting to explode, TV shows don’t make me react much.

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by Russ Oates on Feb 25, 2012 3:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Ha! That's funny.

That is kind of hard to top.

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Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 25, 2012 3:38 PM MST up reply actions  

i just started following curt schilling's twitter

he’s giving sabremetric pitching advice to daniel hudson.. who really doesn’t seem all that interested

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by papality on Feb 25, 2012 2:13 PM MST reply actions  

Curt Schilling is speaking…….no one seems all that interested

/fixed

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 3:31 PM MST up reply actions  

he may be a blowhard, but if i were a pitcher,

the live-ball era leader in K/BB is a guy whose words i would pay attention to

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PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 25, 2012 6:30 PM MST up reply actions  

J-UP

and Matt Kemp are the best position players in the NL West and 3rd is not even close….
http://westsideculture.mlblogs.com/tag/nl-west/

by kevinrehberg on Feb 25, 2012 10:48 PM MST reply actions  

really you're going to throw down some war reports?

Look at the overall player. Watch the game.
%$$% moneyball and Sabrmetrics

by kevinrehberg on Feb 26, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions  

canttellifstupidortrolling.jpg

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PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 26, 2012 10:12 PM MST up reply actions  

someone doesn't understand positional scarcity

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 26, 2012 7:21 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

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  4. Chad Bettis, RHP - AA DL
  5. Tyler Matzek, A (Adv)
  6. Alex White, MLB
  7. Kyle Parker, OF - A (Adv)
  8. Tim Wheeler, OF - AAA DL
  9. Josh Rutledge, SS - AA
  10. Charlie Blackmon, OF - AAA DL
  11. Rosell Herrera, SS/3B - A
  12. Trevor Story, SS/3B - A
  13. Edwar Cabrera, LHP - AA
  14. Tyler Anderson, LHP - A
  15. Rafael Ortega, OF - A (Adv)
  16. Peter Tago, RHP, unassigned
  17. Christian Friedrich, LHP - MLB
  18. Joe Gardner, RHP - AA
  19. Corey Dickerson, OF - A (Adv)
  20. Thomas Field, 2B - AAA
  21. Will Swanner, C - A
  22. Kent Matthes, OF - AA
  23. Albert Campos, RHP - released (4/19/12)
  24. Jordan Pacheco, C/UT - MLB
  25. Cristhian Adames, SS - A (Adv)
  26. Ben Paulsen, 1B - AA
  27. Josh Slaats, RHP - A (Adv)
  28. David Kandilas, CF - A
  29. Jayson Aquino, LHP - unassigned
  30. Hector Gomez, SS - DL
HM:
Edgmer Escalona, RHP - MLB
Dillon Thomas, OF - unassigned
Sam Mende, IF - A
Mike Zuanich, 1B - AA
Dan Houston, RHP - AA

updated 10/25/2011.


Managers

Rox_girl_small Rox Girl

35l7yvb_small Andrew Martin

Staff

Jeff_aberle_small Jeff Aberle

No_bunting_small Bryan Kilpatrick

Avatar2_small Andrew T. Fisher

Wittgenstein_small Greg Stanwood

Special Assistants to the GM

Rockies_lost_americana_small holly96

2rr10yf_small RhodeIslandRoxfan

Pic2_small CBake33

Image_small Rafael Rojas Cremonesi