Saturday Rockpile: Carlos Gonzalez vs. Justin Upton, Plus Other Things that Will Make You Mad
As I was preparing to write my typical Saturday morning links piece, I came across Eric Karabell's 2011 Fantasy Baseball Top 100 on ESPN.com. It's an Insider-only piece, so I won't share too much from it, but there was something in it that made me bang my head on my desk far too many times than a somewhat-sane person should. Here it is:
7. Justin Upton, OF, Arizona Diamondbacks: A future MVP, and it could be this season.
16. Carlos Gonzalez, OF, Colorado Rockies: Don't feel guilty at all that a good portion of his numbers are supplied by a friendly home ballpark.
Let me preface this rant by saying that I like Justin Upton. I enjoy watching him play, and I honestly do believe that he is one of the top players in the game. This rant is not an indictment on him, but rather an indictment on baseball writers everywhere. This is not a new topic, either; it has been brought up a multitude of times, both by people in our community and elsewhere. But, I feel compelled to write about it, so hear me out.
I'm sure by now you know where I'm going with this, but I'll continue anyway: Gonzalez - career .744 OPS away from home = PRODUCT OF COORS FIELD. GET THIS GUY OUT OF HERE. FRAUD. Upton - career .749 OPS away from home = FUTURE MVP. BEST YOUNG CORNER OUTFIELDER IN THE GAME. FUTURE HALL OF FAMER.
Again, I'm not taking away from Upton; there are several reasons why he's more highly regarded. He's just 24 years old, can consistently hit baseballs further than almost anyone else on the planet, and was a former number one pick. Gonzalez, meanwhile, was an amateur free agent from Venezuela who didn't find his footing in the big leagues until he was the same age as Upton was in 2011 when he was an MVP candidate, and was bounced out of two organizations before achieving stardom. Still, that doesn't make the media's perception of guys in Colorado any fairer or more accurate, and the same can be said about guys who have the same problem who call hitter's parks not named Coors Field their home. And, in case I haven't already made this clear enough, it's not Upton being considered the better player that bugs me - it's the fact that NOBODY says ANYTHING about his dramatic splits. Well, and that the Coors Field stigma is always going to be present. We're seeing it now with Larry Walker, who isn't getting much respect among HOF voters (despite posting a career .865 road OPS), and we saw it last season when Todd Helton's HOF candidacy became a topic of national discussion (despite posting a career .869 road OPS). Hell, we still hear about it with Troy Tulowitzki (although mostly from ignorant fans, which are the spawn of bad sportswriters) and his .808 road OPS (which has actually been up in the .870 range over the past two seasons).
As Rockies fans, we're used to it, but can anything be done to change the overstated perception? The agonizing thing to think about is that, in my time as a fan, the only thing I can think of that has gotten people to shut up is the success Matt Holliday has had ever since leaving Denver. That's the cruelty of being a Rockies fan - our favorite players will likely never be appreciated for how good they really are until they leave.
A few more links after the jump...
The Denver Post has a few new stories, including one about the aforementioned CarGo, who apparently bulked up during the offseason and looks like an absolute chiseled beast. Also, Casey Blake is profiled by Patrick Saunders. Blake will be expected to contribute while bouncing back from a neck injury, albeit as a bridge to fill the gap between now and the arrival of the golden child.
MLB.com's Joey Nowak writes that Jim Tracy is trying to instill a more relaxed culture at spring camp this season. Talking is one thing; not benching a guy for an inferior player after an 0-for-4 is another. Hopefully, the skipper is able to learn from past over-evaluations and failures, and maybe the relaxed atmosphere thing helps. I don't know.
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1 week from today
The Rockies play their first game. I don’t know about you, but I can’t f’ing wait to see a lineup card.
This doesn't help
me much as I was supposed to go watch a Mines game today. The thing is it snowed Thursday and while the field drains pretty well they canceled the weekend series. I’m sad and disappointed and now I have to wait another week to watch baseball.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I went to two UNC games today
Bears didn’t do so well, got swept by North Dakota State, 11-2 and 18-4.
Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.
Sweet (well sort of)
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
If it's any consolation
Karabell’s whole list is moronic.
"If I stay healthy, I have a chance to collect 3,000 hits and 1,000 errors."
~George Brett
I had a dream about nolan arenado last night
It was about baseball. Specifically this season. He got called up, took the 3b job and hit .330 for the year.
by Purple Row Troll on Feb 25, 2012 9:02 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I'm with you BK
I’m sure my forehead is scarred from this subject
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 25, 2012 9:18 AM MST via Android app reply actions
At least you still have your hair! :-\
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
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It kills me as well
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by Andrew Martin on Feb 25, 2012 5:00 PM MST up reply actions
Sticking with the fantasy theme ...
THC posted his keeper rankings (evaluating players equally over the next four seasons):
3) Justin Upton
5) Tulowitzki
12) Carlos Gonzalez (#5 among all OF’ers)
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbdk2k12_keeperranks
For some reason I can't
stomach Pluckton being ahead of Tulo on the rankings
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
by Colsportsfan on Feb 25, 2012 9:52 AM MST up reply actions
age and SB's
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by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
But what about position?
If you don’t pick up Upton, there’s going to be another OF who’s also pretty good. Pass on Tulo, and who’s next?
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"...buffalo chicken is a fine anti-depressant, after all." -UZ
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I'd guess that Tulo's injury history factors into this
still a bit unfair though, as quite a few of the events that have sent him to the DL have been of the freakish variety
Quad injuries...
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
OF isn't as deep as it used to be
and while i’m not really a believer, hanley is a great rebound candidate
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Hanley is a 3B really always was
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
he'll get some games in at SS when reyes gets hurt
be enough to maintain eligibility, which he already has in yahoo
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probably but for the next 3 years?
"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides
i know yahoo lets you keep whatever eligibility you had from the season before, so it's definitely possible if not probable
looks i thought his contract was up after 13 but it’s not until 14, which would have helped if he moved back to SS elsewhere
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Its just for one year though. He needs to start in 5 games at SS to have it for next year or appear in 10 games there.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
that's it?
i thought the yahoo requirements were steeper. then yeah, i definitely think hanley could maintain it for 3 years
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Yea thats it.
Its like Martin Prado. Last year, he was 1b 2b 3b and OF qualified. this year, he dont have the 2b because Uggla took over there.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
starlin castro is also a good bet,
because there’s plenty of room for him to develop power and we know what he can already do.
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I think Cargo gets overlooked some because he’s the #2 on this team. Were he on a team where he was the best offensive player, he’d be ranked higher.
I definitely don’t think the two are that far apart. Maybe I give Upton the nod because he has been more consistent from the middle of the order while Cargo seems to do better when he’s leading off but I think Upton is a weak fielder and Cargo good. So I don’t know…
Tulo behind Upton….only reason I see that is because of Tulo’s injury history but otherwise I’d take Tulo any second of the day.
upton is an above-average to good fielder
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The defensive metrics actually like him even better than Cargo
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:11 PM MST up reply actions
But the defensive metrics also seem to hate Rockies OFs in general for some reason
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
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by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 3:17 PM MST up reply actions
that's due to the way UZR assigns the zones in coors
cargo rates positively in both TZL and DRS, and of course the fans scouting reports
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You should also mention
that the dry non-humidified thin air at Chase Field probably inflates numbers more than Coors Field, and yet the media almost always tend to forget that somehow
Colorado Offense: Making bad pitchers look like CY Young Winners.
The thing I don't get is...
When somebody mentions “Product of Coors Field”, they tend to forget that our hitters get to play in Petco Park, AT&T Park, and Dodger’s Stadium. To me considering everything… it’s a wash, and a player’s overall statistics should be taken with no bias.
Most of our hitter’s home and road splits tell the story.
"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."
Dodgers Stadium, Petco Park, and ATT Park....
Ranked 22nd, 28th, and 30th in runs scored last season.
"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."
Giants also
had the worst offensive team in the NL (and maybe the majors, but I’d have to check that)
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
True...
But having a decent offensive team might bring them from 30th to…… 25th? lol
"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."
home team's production has little effect on park factors
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yep
It’s about relative performance of teams in one park versus another. If the Giants have a bad offense, it doesn’t make the PF lower, because they take that bad offense everywhere.
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@Paul_Franz
This is why I am not against having a couple of flyball pitchers around...
The number of times we play in pitcher’s paradises. I could see Outman/Mosocoso/ Moyer being used for a west coast swing when trying to limit innings for POM/ Nicasio/ Chatwood/ White.
"Why are they outlawin' the spit pitch? The curveball is a cheap 'n easy pitch; the spitter aint" Ty Cobb
"When I was pitching 90's in the seventies; I never thought I'd be pitching 70's in the nineties!" Frank Tanana
Park factors exist
throwing them out would be silly, as numbers are affected one way or the other depending on the ballpark. What’s frustrating is how it is completely de rigeur for the whole media to asterix ALL hitters from Colorado whilst it never gets brought up for guys like Upton and Hamilton who, great as they are, also benefit from favourable park factors but never have that asterix held against them.
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
To further this point
I think a lot of it comes down to that it’s kind of our identity as a team to the national media. Your east coast based guys like Karabell don’t follow the Rockies as an organisation closely, so when they have to mention them one of the easiest things to write is LOLCOORZ and know that 80% of their readership are going to nod their heads in agreement.
Even now, I remember a couple of years ago when the Mariners came to Coors Field going onto Lookout Landing and there was a sizeable thread commenting that they hate this ballpark and even that they should skip Brandon Morrow’s start at Coors to avoid ruining his confidence (kind of how we think of pitching prospects at the Springs I guess)
Campaigning for more day baseball games since 2006
I've seen this as well...
and of course going from Seattle’s ballpark to Coors is gonna make a difference.
"I need to think something lasts forever, and it might as well be that state of being that is a game; it might as well be that, in a green field, in the sun."
Jose Lopez disagrees...
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
I think what bugs me
about this whole thing is how much our pitchers do NOT get regarded for pitching there while the hitters are vastly underrated. This was an even bigger deal before 2004 (both sides) but today it still happens and that is what bothers me the most.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
by jrockies on Feb 25, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
lolmariners
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Humidor doesn’t change the fact that Coors’s outfield is huge and continues making the stadium an offensive haven.
But I do agree that it does feel as though as other teams’ players are as quickly asterisked for their production when they play in a band box? How many fewer home runs would Ryan Howard have if he didn’t play at Citizens Bank Park were a pop up into left field ends up in the stands?
The big outfield means that Coors is a different kind of offensive park than most hitters' parks.
That may be a reason for journalists (and sabermetricians) to put an asterisk beside it.
And the Rockies still haven’t figured out exactly how to deal with its differences from other parks (both hitters and pitchers have to figure out how to adjust between home and road, even when the road games are in hitters’ parks at sea level).
Doesn’t mean the players should be disregarded because they play here, but I think there’s a reason to think about Coors differently than most offensive parks.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
JFK's Quote of the Day:
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"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Its been said on here before.
Let’s make it an even playing field and install humidor’s at all the stadium’s. I dont care how muggy it is gets in Florida. Hell, the humidor may actually dry the balls out some.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
Rec'in dis Rockpile
Great job BK…
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
Maybe we just only discuss stats in terms of Road stats...
…but then Rockies hitters will get unfairly compared for NOT playing road games at “Coors Canaveral” or whatever other nickname or tired perception continually trotted out by lazy-ass journalists.
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by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 25, 2012 11:06 AM MST reply actions
I'm kind of curious.
But doesn’t the ball FLY at Chase Field too? Like it used to at Coors Canaveral? Why isn’t there a Chase Field Factor?
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
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More people like snakes more than rocks?
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
because pre-humidor, Coors was insane. It was so much different than any other park. Now with the humidor, Coors is merely an above average offensive park, not much different than TX or AZ, but that original perception of the park still clouds current views.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
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Then they need to come watch a game.
I bet the fans are alot better than them though
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions
Coors is still a well above offensive stadium. Less home runs but overall offensive production is still way up due to the size of the outfield.
True
but according to ESPN, Coors is the second most offensive park in MLB. Nobody has a problem with calling it a hitters park, its the reputation that it is so over the top that it is in a different category is the problem. If the media says something about the Coors Field Effect the question is why isn’t there a Rangers Ballpark Effect or a Fenway Park Effect. Or at the other end of the scale an AT&T, Petco, Tropicana Park effect for pitchers. If Rockies batters has it held against them that they hit at Coors Field half the time, why isn’t it held against Lincecum for pitching at AT&T?
by 3nS on Feb 25, 2012 4:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
oh absolutely. It’s just gone from being in a class of it’s own to ‘still a big time offensive park but really not that different than TX or AZ’
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
I received an email from a friend today:
“I got three seats in left field for when the Brewers come to town this year and I’m taking three signs with me:
In 2007.
Troy did it honestly.
How did you earn it?"
Ice cold, man
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
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by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 11:57 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Darrrrrrrylllllll Darrryllllllllll
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by djmbluemoon on Feb 25, 2012 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
I'll be there on 8/13.
I will boo lustily.
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by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 12:09 PM MST up reply actions
At least Braun made one fact perfectly clear...
…he had NEVER had an STD!
So there…
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by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 25, 2012 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice Rec'd
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
That's too funny. Flec'd
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I know Fed-Ex locations!
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
hahahahahahah
Jason Grimsley snuck into the guy’s basement and swapped Braun’s clean pee with the roided up pee.
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
/often found at the Cracker Barrell.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
What you can do to dispell the Coor's field effect myth.
A Rowbot grass roots movement of sorts is needed. Make an issue of it in comments to national media outlets that promote the myth. Another thing is the person in the best place to discredit the myth is Troy Renck. Purple Row might show him how he is doing a disservice to the Rockies by not doing more to debunk the myth. How are the Rockies suppose to get top talent if the Coors Field Myth is going to be used against them and Troy Renck doesn’t do anything to discredit the myth and help the person in his HOF arguments? How are the Rockies suppose to get top pitching if the pitchers are afraid of the Coors Field Myth? I suggest calling Renck out to do his part to discredit the myth with facts and figures.
I think the best way to dispel the Coors myths
would be to win the World Series here.
That would be a start, at least.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
We started getting much more love after our 2007 run. I’ve said it before, but until we’re consistently good, we’re going to continue getting little respect (which makes sense I guess) and being written about in terms of these outdated, shorthand notions (which is less fair)… Basically, the mainstream isn’t going to take a closer at us and be more level-headed in their views until the club/team actually forces them to.
"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker
PRMLB: The Brew Crew
This. Respect is earned
When the Rockies put up a 5-year span when they’re at least in serious contention for the playoffs every year, this kind of thing will stop. Coors Field will still be viewed as a hitter-friendly park, but there are a lot of those. Right now the media outside Denver just don’t pay much attention to the Rockies. They don’t look at the splits too closely, or the pre- and post- humidor numbers. And frankly most of the time the Rockies don’t give them much reason to start looking.
I love the Rockies, but outside Colorado, they’re perceived as a very streaky team that got ridiculously hot once in 2007, plays at a freaky high ballpark, and is otherwise a pretty unremarkable middle-of-the pack NL ballclub in a fly-over state. Like it or not, this perception will continue until the Rockies find a way to end it by putting together a great team for several years.
"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3
You might be right
In fact you probably are. But that doesn’t make it right. It is the job of these reporters to take the time to learn and bother to understand the facts. It isn’t the job of a team to take media members by the throats and shake them until they start paying attention. The fact of the matter is that reporting like what BK quoted is seriously deficient, substandard and inaccurate. It isn’t (or shouldn’t be) excused by the fact that the writer isn’t writing about the Yankess, Red Sox or Phillies, but just some small market team that hasn’t won the world series.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
the reason no one mentions the splits
is because arizona and texas both have traditions of good pitching as well, so it’s not perceived that nobody can pitch there
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Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were not good pitching
they were amazing and could pitch anywhere.
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
preaching to the choir
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I sing in the choir
rarely does the preacher preach to us
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
.

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Texas has a history of good pitching?
Other than Nolan Ryan at the end of his career, how many truly great pitchers did they have in the first 36 years of that franchise?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
well, i meant a relatively recent history
but historially, kenny rogers, kevin brown, charlie hough, bobby witt, bert blyleven, and ferguson jenkins all had productive time in texas
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
There were some productive seasons yes
But I’m not sure I’d think of all of them when we are talking about great pitchers in a franchise history.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
but that's partially because they've only been in texas since 1972
and their good pitchers have all more and better time elsewhere. not every franchise gets a bob feller or a lefty grove to have a great career in one place
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But isn't that
at least part of what having a tradition of great pitching is all about?
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
partly yeah
which is why i had in mind recent times, with developing of of guys like wilson, feliz, harrison, et al
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I would agree that they are developing something that has a chance to be a great pitching franchise
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
additionally, no one really made their "claim to fame" except maybe kenny rogers
like johnson and schilling did in arizona
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
For most of their existence
they actually had a reputation much like the Rockies. Could always crush the ball, but never get the pitching they needed to win.
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 3:18 PM MST up reply actions
This is how they pretty much existed in my mind as well
But even this didn’t stop individuals like ARod from getting respect and winning the MVP there.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
.435/.404 H/R wOBA, 26/21 H/R HR
not a big difference, and only 20 points larger than the league average H/R wOBA split that year
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
interesting a-rod fact;
not only is there an outside shot for him to retire as the all-time HR leader, if he plays to the end of his contract he’ll likely retire as the all-time leader in batter strikeouts, RBI, and R, as well as near the top in TB, XBH, and H. wow.
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Sadly, I think it would be
asterisked forever :(
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If the Rockies couldn't win a road game in the World Series, it might be.
So I take it back: I want to see the Rockies win the last game of the World Series at home, after winning at least two games on the road.
And I want the Rockies to win the NL West.
And a pony.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Feb 25, 2012 12:38 PM MST up reply actions
Well who doesn't want a pony?
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
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The fantasy baseball writers who choose Punkton over CarGo?
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
by glaucophane on Feb 25, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
I hate anybody who had a pony when they were a kid
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
What if we had a full grown horse?
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Or a quarter horse....
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
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I would take a quarter of him.
His right arm is the one I want.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:59 PM MST up reply actions
I'm even going to go into the
appendage discussion LOL
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I'm not going there.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
Well, I was talking more about ponies per se...
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
Okay well I never had a pony....
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OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
"We want a pony. We want a pony"
Torchwood reference
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
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OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
we all get a little pony
or whatever Cargo is going to be called this year
Staring out the window, waiting for spring.
We could just refer to our eight offensive starters as the clydesdales if they end up carrying the team.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't but my next door neighbors had horses.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:57 PM MST up reply actions
I had a pony back in poland!
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Was it a beautiful pony?
We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!
In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener
by Junction Rox on Feb 25, 2012 1:38 PM MST up reply actions
she was the prettiest pony in all of krakow!
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
My sister
"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK
Here's your pony

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
that right there, is a goddamned thoroughbred.
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
/often found at the Cracker Barrell.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
But it works right?
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
by Roxman4ever on Feb 25, 2012 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
Yeahhhhhh
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I don't think that's the kind of fantasy baseball that was being discussed in the article, Cat.
"Are they called the Rockies because they rock?" - 7 y.o.
Not in my head
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Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Was this your reaction when you saw this picture Cat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_S5cXbXe-4&feature=related
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
you know she's not actually a cat, right?
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
icwydt
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was hoping you would
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Yea I know
But it makes it so much easier to find stuff on Youtube.
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
you've earned yourself a nice little rec there
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Thanks
Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.
Yep.
the Orioles just put out a press release describing how they have gotten together with the Pirates and designed a baseball stadium for children and special-needs adults.
their new shared spring training facility will be located 20 minutes outside of Fort Lauderdale.
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
/often found at the Cracker Barrell.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 12:45 PM MST reply actions
Wow.
The Pirates leaving Bradenton is almost as big as the Dodgers leaving Vero.
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http://ootp.petrocw.com
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by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:51 PM MST up reply actions
Wait.
This is a joke?
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
Oh.
Ok. No new facilities. Phew.
Purple Row MLB: An OOTP league for Rowbots
http://ootp.petrocw.com
Leading the Astros into the Future. Go, Go Astros!
by DumbAndNerdy on Feb 25, 2012 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
/often found at the Cracker Barrell.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 3:30 PM MST up reply actions
If you enjoy baseball history
or just like to revisit outstanding postseason moments, MLB network is about to show “Postseason to Remember” which looks back at 1986 – Probably the only season since the postseason was more than just the World Series where every series was a classic.
Time: 4 ET / 2MT / 1PT
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 1:55 PM MST reply actions
2002, 2003, 2011
and 1998 :D
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No
I’d have a hard time calling either LCS in 02 a classic, the first two series Texas was involved in last season were not too great, and 98 completely sucked as not a single series went the distance.
03 is probably the only one I could argue as being better than 86. I don’t know if all four LDS’s were classics but there was so much great baseball that season there’s an argument to be made. However, I still believe that 1986 was the only postseason where EVERY series was a classic. (Obviously it was either before the Wild Card though because there was only three (instead of seven) series.)
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:19 PM MST up reply actions
either easier
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
counterpoint:
matt moore starting game 1 of the ALDS
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That doesn't make it a classic
Just as neither the 1915 or 1916 World Series were classic when Babe Ruth made his hitting and pitching debut.
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
nah
it was still awesome though
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they're doing it with a carter tribute in mind, right?
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I'm not really sure
Although you never really need an excuse to show games from that postseason
Although baseball is full of teams suffering setbacks, it’s also full teams overcoming them. All I ask is for the Rockies to be defined by the latter category.
by RhodeIslandRoxfan on Feb 25, 2012 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
Nonsense: Does anyone watch "Fringe" here?
Because I just have to say “Oh. My. God!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
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OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I'll say meh.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
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Did you watch last night? I was pretty stunned.
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OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yes.
Ever since season 2 of 24 when George Mason flew the plane with the nuke waiting to explode, TV shows don’t make me react much.
"No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First" - 1st Infantry Division Motto
SB Nation Denver - The regional hub for Denver sports!
Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!
Ha! That's funny.
That is kind of hard to top.
Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
i just started following curt schilling's twitter
he’s giving sabremetric pitching advice to daniel hudson.. who really doesn’t seem all that interested
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Curt Schilling is speaking…….no one seems all that interested
/fixed
Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.
/often found at the Cracker Barrell.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 25, 2012 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
he may be a blowhard, but if i were a pitcher,
the live-ball era leader in K/BB is a guy whose words i would pay attention to
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
J-UP
and Matt Kemp are the best position players in the NL West and 3rd is not even close….
http://westsideculture.mlblogs.com/tag/nl-west/
try again
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2007&ind=0&team=&rost=&players=
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2009&ind=0&team=&rost=&players=
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
and even only 2011:
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
really you're going to throw down some war reports?
Look at the overall player. Watch the game.
%$$% moneyball and Sabrmetrics
by kevinrehberg on Feb 26, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
someone doesn't understand positional scarcity
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by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 26, 2012 7:21 AM MST via Android app up reply actions

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