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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Monday Rockpile: Can The Rockies Survive Michael Cuddyer in RF?

ST. PETERSBURG, FL - APRIL 17:  Infielder Michael Cuddyer #5 of the Minnesota Twins catches a fly ball against the Tampa Bay Rays during the game at Tropicana Field on April 17, 2011 in St. Petersburg, Florida.  (Photo by J. Meric/Getty Images)

One of the core values of the Colorado Rockies organization from roughly 2005 through 2010 was to play good, solid fundamental baseball and to play good, solid defense. 2007 it worked, too, as the Rockies had the highest season fielding percentage of any team in MLB history. It was no wonder, too, given the cast of characters the Rockies played: the multiple Gold Glove winner Todd Helton at 1B, the speedy and defensively strong 2B Kaz Matsui, the fleet-footed Willy Taveras patrolling CF, and a young rookie shortstop named Troy Tulowitzki marveled us with his ferocity at SS, making plays that wowed even seasons veterans such as Dodgers' longtime broadcaster Vin Scully.

What didn't play into this ultimate equation were two first basemen who were forced out of position by the 1B mainstay, Todd Helton. So it began that Rockies fans got to watch some of the worst, and generally unrecognized, awful awful defensive play at RF and 3B in Rockies history.

Now, that's a bit of a loaded statement. Vinny Castilla held down the 3B position for the Rockies for many years, in solid if not slick fashion. Everyone who watched the Rockies in the 90s knows that you don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, and you don't run on Larry Walker. That being said, the contrast from what was to what is now is relatively big, in a manner of speaking. You see, at 3B, you want to see smooth backhand scoops and sidearm throws rifled across the diamond to Helton. From RF, you want to see that cannon on the shoulder nailing ambitious runners trying for 3B.

See, with Garrett Atkins, he had a strong enough arm, and OK hands. There wasn't much slick or smooth about his fielding; it was good enough to get the job done. His fielding percentage numbers weren't that bad simply because a lot of the balls Scott Rolen or Pedro Feliz would've gotten to and made an out on ended up singles into LF for Atkins - not a lot of errors on balls you don't make a play on. Similarly, Brad Hawpe is an outfielder, a position which isn't terribly prone to errors, as most plays that can be converted to outs are fly balls. The big difference is that in 2006, a year when Atkins and Matt Holliday had their offensive breakouts, Hawpe also had an offensive breakout as well as built himself a reputation as someone you don't want to run on: 16 outfield assists is a large number.

Off Topic

Star-divide

Interestingly enough, that was the same year that Michael Cuddyer began getting serious reps in the outfield and rewarded Ron Gardenhire with 11 outfield assists of his own, 19 in 2007. Neither Hawpe nor Cuddyer broke 10 OF Assists again in a season. Both had solidified their reputations as "guys not to run on" (as suggested by the drop in OF assist numbers), but it also laid bare their questionable fielding range.

We can probably drop the formalities: Neither Hawpe nor Cuddyer are really good RF. They both have the arm strength which I guess makes them more SUITED for RF than LF, but neither really has business playing 162 games out there, regardless of age. But arm strength will do that to a manager, as well as a fanbase, and after Jim Tracy sees Cuddyer nail his first ambitious baserunner trying to stretch 2 bags out of a single, it's going to be hard to sub him out.

Just remember that at least Cuddyer has the strong arm, and while his defensive range may be awful in general, he did have an unexpected UZR spike (all the way up to slightly-below-average, all right) last season, and more importantly, the Rockies did make the playoffs twice in the past several years with Brad Hawpe in RF and Garrett Atkins at 3B. We're just asking to make it with Michael Cuddyer in RF, that's all. As long as Cuddyer holds runners with that cannon of his, I think he'll do just fine.

* * *

Rox firm up plans for intrasquad scrimmages | ColoradoRockies.com: News

March 2 marks the first intrasquad games, featuring pitching performances from: Jamie Moyer, Jeremy Guthrie, Guillermo Moscoso, Alex White, Esmil Rogers, Chad Bettis, Rafael Betancourt, Matt Belisle, Stephen Dodson, Carlos Torres and Josh Sullivan. Juan Nicasio+ on March 4. Oh, how I wish I were in Arizona for the next month.

Tulo thriving as mentor, motivator to teammates | ColoradoRockies.com: News

This certainly isn't the first, nor will it be the last, article we see about Troy Tulowitzki being a masterful leader and running longer and working harder than anyone else on the team. I wish I had that kind of drive sometimes, as I'm sure a lof of us do.

What's encouraging about this isn't even so much bragging rights about having the best SS in baseball, but it does add a bit of encouragement to Rockies fans given the potentially franchise-shaping extension given to Tulo.

Baseball Prospectus | Wezen-Ball: The Springfield Nuclear Power Plant All-Stars

Remember that episode of The Simpsons where Mr Burns brings in all of the ringers to play softball for him?

So - how good would a 1992 baseball fan have considered the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant team of ringers to have been?

Well, I've never met you, but... good. Very good.

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Remember

all of those Tulo vs Hanely arguments that used to be debated? Sounds pretty ridiculous in hindsight, and I imagine it’ll sound insane five to ten years from now.

Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?

by jcd823 on Feb 27, 2012 7:40 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Hanley was an amazing Offensive force 3 straight seasons over 145 wRC+ is insane for a SS

but his D caught up with him, and his bat was awful last year

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 27, 2012 8:04 AM MST up reply actions  

This

Hanley was a monster before his body developed and he failed to adjust or whatever it has been that casued his recent slide.

by Adam2011 on Feb 27, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions  

I actually remember one claiming Tulo to be inferior to Drew on ESPN.

I think it was 36 months ago

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 27, 2012 8:31 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

"Hey, this team is good right now, I think I'll root for them!"

The guy should just become a Yankees/Patriots/Lakers/Red Wings fan and get it over with…

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 27, 2012 10:23 AM MST up reply actions  

My reply to him was

This is like saying “I was a life long Orioles fan, but I decided to root for the Red Sox because they won the world series that one year.”

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 10:25 AM MST up reply actions  

People like this should not be allowed to watch sports

Jason Giambi for player-manager in 2012!
How the world will end in 2012: George of the Roses builds a Machine that Pommels everyone with La Violencia during Whiteouts.

by free7694 on Feb 27, 2012 1:31 PM MST up reply actions  

He needs to go suck on an egg.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 27, 2012 1:52 PM MST up reply actions  

This is why ...

… one-year UZR stats are generally discredited even more than UZR in general is looked askance upon.

and while his defensive range may be awful in general, he did have an unexpected UZR spike (all the way up to slightly-below-average, all right) last season

I haven’t seen Cuddyer in many games, but by all accounts he fails the eye test in RF, despite the plus arm. The Rox probably have had worese defense in RF in Hawpe, but if you look at Cuddy’s UZR/150 (the “preferred” metric for normalizing playing time) for 2009 & 2010 (-13.7 & -20.6 respectively), so considering 2009-11 you have to figure Cuddyer is worth approximately -11 runs in RF (and that is before accounting for how UZR hates Coors field defenders), giving back at least half if not most of the runs he earns with the bat (projected 21.2 wRAA -ZiPS; 12.2 wRAA – Rotochamp; 15.4 wRAA James).

I know, I know … UZR SHMUZR … but we better hope DoD has it right and all the balls hit in the air to RF are of the “soft” (but not too soft!) variety.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 8:06 AM MST reply actions  

Never given credit to UZR.

Guys that get to more balls than most, make plays on them, and still have a “negative” UZR means that stat needs some more development.

by Purple Row Troll on Feb 27, 2012 10:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Sort of on-topic

Hi guys,

I want a baseball mitt for my birthday, and my gf has asked me to do some research. I want a decent all-round glove (I don’t play a position, for example) with good flexibility. I also need to know what the deal is with sizing – I have pretty small hands for a 6 foot bloke.

Oh, and it would be ideal if the recommended glove can be bought in the UK rather than imported :)

Any thoughts?

It's my blog!

PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you

by biondino on Feb 27, 2012 8:09 AM MST reply actions  

Are you actually going to be playing?

Do they have softball/baseball leagues in the UK?

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 8:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Your cricket glove won't suffice?

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 8:16 AM MST up reply actions  

That's probably because I think you're RIRF

half the time. LOL

^5

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 8:21 AM MST up reply actions  

I know ....

Forever destined to dwell in RIRF’s shadow ….

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 8:29 AM MST up reply actions  

LOL no no no. I said half the time

if it was his shadow it would be 3/4 of the time:)

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

it has been 12 years since I last bought a mitt

I think I got it at Wal-Mart. ill be No help

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 27, 2012 8:33 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

Have you checked Tesco?

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 8:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Hah. I have searched online - amazon.co.uk primarily - but I don't really know where to start.

There are softball and baseball teams which play in Hyde park in the summer months and I’m interested to join one of those, maybe.

Also, cricket gloves? You only WEAR gloves if you’re a wicketkeeper (or batsman) – you field barehanded and the ball’s even harder than a baseball :)

It's my blog!

PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you

by biondino on Feb 27, 2012 9:10 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I know re cricket gloves

But come on man, obvious British joke was obvious and had to be made!

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 9:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Things you want to look for.

You are likely going to want to concentrate on pocket size and padding. I don’t think you are going to be playing at a level where you are concerned with how fast you can transfer the ball out of your glove and throw it, so you should be good with a larger pocket in the glove. Otherwise, you should be concerned with comfort.

I don’t know how fast a cricket ball comes off the paddle, but it seems that in cricket, there is only a time advantage for grabbing the ball out of the air vs letting it bounce to take a little momentum off the ball, but with baseball/softball it’s the difference between an out and a run. That being said, you want to just make sure that you have something that’s flexible and possibly has a little padding on the palm.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 9:18 AM MST up reply actions  

and if you buy a used glove that has “Barry Bonds” engraved on the side, go ahead and ask your artist friend to paint over the leather until it reads “Larry Bonds.”

Some days, I feel like I’ve accidentally entered the Church of Tulowitzki on Baseball Easter.
Proud GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds!
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by Muzia on Feb 27, 2012 9:20 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

A hit ball caught without bouncing is an out in cricket too, and their are only 10 outs per side

Rather than 27 per side in baseball.

Thanks for this, guys.

It's my blog!

PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you

by biondino on Feb 27, 2012 9:28 AM MST up reply actions  

I couldn't remember.

Forgive my American ignorance.

Speaking of which, they’ve started a cricket league here at work, and I’ve been wanting to check it out. I think I could be a pretty good bowler.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 9:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Oh you should totally do it!

You know that when you bowl your arm has to be straight at all time, right? More like a windmill than a baseball pitch?

A handy video about fast bowling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBa1OxNYI-Y&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL828912F828550DF5

It's my blog!

PRMLB - The San Francisco Giants are better than you

by biondino on Feb 27, 2012 9:43 AM MST up reply actions  

I played cricket for a bit

We used tennis balls so we didn’t kill each other, and some didn’t have proper gloves, but we did have proper cricket bats and wickets. And we could keep score. Well, I couldn’t, but others could.

I was a pretty good bowler, if I do say so myself :)

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I pick my gloves on personal preference .

Comfort and size are the most important features that I look for. I recommend going with a mid-priced glove if you are not going to be a serious player. If you can find a sporting goods store that carries them, try a few on and see what feels best for you. I recommend getting one of the major brands as they generally have the features wanted.

"It ain't over 'til it's over." Yogi Berra
"Boys, baseball is a game where you gotta have fun. You do that by winning."
Dave Bristol
Will the good 2012 ever get here?

by Roxman on Feb 27, 2012 9:41 AM MST via mobile up reply actions  

one time I went online to look for cricket bats

to complete my Shaun of the Dead costume. I figured they wouldn’t be bad. but man, all you can find in the states are the top of the line models, and those ain’t cheap.

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 27, 2012 9:34 AM MST up reply actions  

Rawlings gloves are good

Mizunos break in easier, though (softer leather), a factor if you’re going to want to use it quickly in games.

by maris61 on Feb 27, 2012 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

I always loved Rawlings gloves

they seemed to fit my hand best. I have long narrow fingers though, so maybe your best brand would be different.

if they have certain player’s models, like a “Todd Helton Model” or something like that, I would say for good general use, look for a pitcher’s model. Generally have a deep pocket for hiding the ball, the webbing will always be closed, as opposed to a cage style like a lot of outfielders. But a pitcher’s model also will be an average size, whereas a middle infielder’s glove will be small, and an outfielder’s will be larger.

Also, don’t forget the oil for breaking it in. Rawlings or Easton make them, and it’s cheap. But I’ve heard all the alternatives like baby oil and shaving cream with aloe, but actual glove oil always worked the best. (Does your GF use makeup wedges? Those are best for application)

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 27, 2012 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

I love my Rawlings glove

I’ve had it for about 15 years now, and it’s still going strong. I’ve enjoyed playing with Mizuno gloves as well, and they’re a bit cheaper than the high end Rawlings gloves. Ditto on glove oil, and I’ll have to try the makeup wedges for application when my old glove finally dies in the next couple years.

Rockies in October

by sasperilla_pete on Feb 27, 2012 10:32 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, they're kind of perfect for it.

I tried shaving cream with aloe on a 1B glove I had and it didn’t work that well at all, plus everyone always asked what that smell was. Not a natural baseball smell at all.

I don’t remember if I’ve tried a Mizuno glove on or not. I know Louisville Sluggers are too tight on my palm, and Wilsons just didn’t feel right when my hand was in them. Maybe would have been better after breaking in, but why risk it? Those are the brands I’ve pretty much seen when I’ve searched.

Filling up your senses like a night in the forest since 1992.

by frightened inmate #2 on Feb 27, 2012 10:39 AM MST up reply actions  

I've had a couple of Mizuno gloves.

I liked them.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Definitely more low-end than middle ...

Looks like they charge you an arm and a leg over there …. can you find a Rawlings “Player-preferred” model?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=rawlings+player+preferred#

Probably not feasible for you but I would feel much better about spending on a glove if I could try it on.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 11:14 AM MST up reply actions  

Buy one off EBAY and pay the shipping you will probably come out ahead

with the VAT

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 27, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I know a guy

with a Spalding glove from 1960 in very good condition. He played softball with it last year. I hope some of my gloves (I have 5 and getting a 6th this year) will last that long and be in that good of condition. The oil helps a lot.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

Pitchers glove is the way to go

Especially for casual use. Though I did have a Barry Larkin model Rawlings growing up and it was great. If those are still around, well, mine lasted me from middle school through college.

"Momentum is a fickle love." - Scott Hastings
Die-hard Rockies fan since seven years after Jamie Moyer's MLB debut.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz

by EmersonCR on Feb 27, 2012 11:39 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

hey me too

MOYER IS OUR SAVIOR
@DylanZable

by CentralCaliRox on Feb 27, 2012 1:23 PM MST up reply actions  

It all depends on the price range

you’re GF is looking to get into. There are some very good gloves from both Mizuno and Rawlings that are in the the $40-50US range and I would probably start there. A standard glove about 11 1/2 or 12 would be a recommended size. I wouldn’t know about buying w/in the UK but looking online at local sporting goods stores might tell you if they have random gloves.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Pretty solid take on the Zimmerman extension ...

Over on FanGraphs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/comps-for-ryan-zimmermans-extension/

DC uses six comps to evaluate the extension and concludes:

Bottom line – the Nationals paid a pretty fair price for a good player who should be able to help them contend while guys like Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper are coming into the primes. This isn’t the kind of deal that will save the team a lot of money, but it keeps a quality player in the fold at a rate that isn’t likely to be a total disaster. There’s risk with any long term extension, and this one could turn out poorly if Zimmerman’s injury issues linger, but this is a valuable skillset and a healthy Zimmerman should earn the money over the life of the deal.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 8:20 AM MST reply actions  

Better to play Cargo in vast Coor's LF with Cuddyer in RF

and then on the road swap positions?

What the hell you lookin' at?

by Johnny Tits on Feb 27, 2012 8:30 AM MST reply actions  

I don't think so

some road parks havd bigger LF as well. the one attribute you’d prefer in RF is an arm, which Cuddyer has. switching smith and cargo made some sense because smith’s arm wasn’t worth much. I think the small benefit of better fitting range for some road parks would be negated by the lesser familiarity in each defensive spot. plus, Cuddyer is deaf in his left ear, so he’s staying in right

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 27, 2012 8:37 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

wow fail on my part

I was just thinking, if hes deaf in his left ear, shouldn’t he be in left field so he can hear the center fielder call for the ball. Then I did the form an L with your hands and realized that I was way off

PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays

by purplesocks on Feb 27, 2012 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Wasn't there an outfielder who was completely deaf not long ago?

I want to say his name was Pride or something. Always wondered how that would work in the field.

"Momentum is a fickle love." - Scott Hastings
Die-hard Rockies fan since seven years after Jamie Moyer's MLB debut.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz

by EmersonCR on Feb 27, 2012 11:36 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

It doesn't matter where you put Cargo in the OF. His Lazor will cut them down.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 27, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Cargo's arm isn't good?

since when?

What the hell you lookin' at?

by Johnny Tits on Feb 27, 2012 8:45 AM MST reply actions  

if that was a reply to me, I certainly made no such claim

"Some guy on the net thinks I suck, and he should know - he's got his own blog." - Nick Hornby
"Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est"
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein

by Andrew T. Fisher on Feb 27, 2012 8:59 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

I do not remember if this has been discussed yet but what kind of upside does dj

lemahiue have? I mean he is only 23 years old, has only played in 37 games, and has had only 60 at-bats.

by tulo92 on Feb 27, 2012 9:08 AM MST reply actions  

He has a okay glove and what might be a solid bat

He didn’t play a lot in the majors last year and he has an outside chance of making the roster out of ST. He will probably come up in case of an injury to an infielder.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:37 PM MST up reply actions  

Was playing MLB The Show last night with updated rosters

In a game at Coors, Cuddyer made a great sliding play on a low line drive and an even better running play on a fly ball way down in the RF corner (where the wall is angled). Conclusion: there’s nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, the Dodgers lit up Guthrie for 5 ER in 5 innings. Conclusion: video games are stupid and have nothing to do with real life.

Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.

by BrandonHawpe on Feb 27, 2012 9:32 AM MST reply actions  

Did you win or lose?

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Hawpe was tough to watch in the OF at times

if Cuddyer is to be another Hawpe in RF, at least Rockies fans can take solace in an offensive juxtoposition between the two. One thing that always drove me nuts about Hawpe was his lack of patience at the plate. In his 5 most productive seasons for the Rockies, Hawpe averaged 121.8 SO/season, whereas Cuddyer has avaeraged 108.6 in his 5 most productive seasons, and had fewer than 100 SO in his last two seasons.

Rockies in October

by sasperilla_pete on Feb 27, 2012 10:49 AM MST reply actions  

We're going to be solid defensively everywhere else, so why not?

I mean, Cuddyer’s realistically only going to be there for 2 years max, if not 1 as he goes to replace Helton and he gets replaced by a better fielder in Wheeler.

Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton

by MattBerger on Feb 27, 2012 11:14 AM MST reply actions  

We can put EY out there for his defense

or not.

"Momentum is a fickle love." - Scott Hastings
Die-hard Rockies fan since seven years after Jamie Moyer's MLB debut.
Poo-Bah of the San Diego Padres in the Purple Row OOTP League.
@Paul_Franz

by EmersonCR on Feb 27, 2012 11:40 AM MST via Android app up reply actions  

I could definitely see Blackmon being used extensively as a defensive replacement

with Cuddyer switching over to first late in games to preserve Helton’s back.

Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton

by MattBerger on Feb 27, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions  

one step forward

two steps back

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:28 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

How bad is Cuddyer?

I really haven’t seen him, but as the article said, Hawpe wasn’t great, Smith wasn’t great, and at least we won’t have Wiggy or EY Jr. out there doing their best Lonnie Smith impersonation. I’m all for great outfield defense with this huge park, but with Cargo’s speed in left Dex can cheat a little towards right.

by volduck on Feb 27, 2012 4:02 PM MST up reply actions  

if we had just signed beltran this wouldn't even be a discussion

;)

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:30 PM MST up reply actions  

Yea.

Thank God we didn’t sign Sizemore.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 27, 2012 4:36 PM MST up reply actions  

or if we had just signed johnny gomes and kept seth smith and the extra 10 million dollars

we would have been discussing how awesome it was we have Roy Oswalt as our starting pitcher!!

PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays

by purplesocks on Feb 27, 2012 5:51 PM MST up reply actions  

we could have had oswalt regardless

the disconnect is on his end, not ours

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

I watched the Twins on MLB.TV some last season

They were my team before we got the Rockies. Dad LOVED Kirby Puckett. From an uneducated eye test, he’s bad. Balls you think “Oh, it’s an out” he is in the picture, but not catching it. Some where you would hope to see him in the picture he is playing catchup. He seemed to be overrunning some or not really playing shorter ones aggressively enough.

Really makes me think of Brad Hawpe a lot where he occasionally makes an AMAZING throw, but you think “Hmm, wonder if he would have made another out with a better read there.”

Ok, Von Doom is a way better nickname than what I liked. So cool to be excited about a pass rush in Denver again!

I want to say how awesome a particular Rockies player is and that he will be the MVP, but the last time I mentioned it in my sig he went out with an injury, so, GO PLAYER WHO IS SO AWESOME!

by Arimaris on Feb 27, 2012 4:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Last week I learned

that defense was secondary to offense when talking about Scaturo, Now why should I worry about Cuddyer’s below average defense?

by 3nS on Feb 27, 2012 11:57 AM MST reply actions  

You were probably told to ignore defensive metrics altogether.

Just kidding. I don’t know who said defense is secondary to offense, as a run saved is equal to a run produced. It is true it seems that MLB as a whole (and certainly contracts) value offense over defense, but I don’t think that makes it right. Just look at what the Rays do with their exceptional defense (they are obviously also helped out by the park factor).

The other issue with Scutaro is he has played primarily SS in his career. The last time he logged more than 300 innings at 2b his UZR/150 was 1.9 (2008) and still you are dealing with a very small sample size. Over the course of his career he rates out as 1.8 UZR/150 in a total of 2373 innings (approximately 264 games), so he looks to be just about average to above at 2b. When you factor in that he played SS for the majority of his career, in 5551 innings (approximately 617 games) he rates out there as just about average to below with a UZR/150 of -2.8.

Given most agree that SS is the more difficult position, it is not unreasonable to expect Scutaro to man 2b quite capably and not be a liability there. This in stark contrast to Cuddyer.

I am now ducking under my desk as all the anti-defensive metrics folks sling their mud, but just using these as a reference, I think you get the point.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 12:12 PM MST up reply actions  

I think defense is given less weight

because it’s harder to measure. I’m not slinging mud at the defensive metrics; I just think that a lot of people are suspicious of them, so they aren’t going to trust them as much. I like the way you referenced Scutaro’s UZR. His numbers are roughly average, and trying to read too much into tenths of a run is not worthwhile. In fact, perhaps it should be reported with only one significant figure instead of two.

by RoxnSox09 on Feb 27, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Oops

Hit post too quickly.

Essentially, a guy gets on base or he doesn’t. When it comes to defense, you have to measure how quickly he can range to a ball, the quality of the angle he takes to field the ball, how well he actually fields the ball, how he transfers the ball from glove to hand, how strong his arm is, how accurate his arm is, etc. There are a lot more moving parts in defense that are more touchy-feely, and more difficult to quantify.

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Feb 27, 2012 12:39 PM MST up reply actions  

Right.

It’s not that it doesn’t matter, just that it’s difficult to measure accurately. If they ever get field f/x going it could make a lot of difference.

by RoxnSox09 on Feb 27, 2012 12:40 PM MST up reply actions  

i was the one who said that defense is secondary

and here’s the example i used: almost no one is a +30 runs defender, but lots of people are +30 runs hitters

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:29 PM MST up reply actions  

yes, of course

it’s just a lot harder to tell, aside from plays at the plate, exactly which defensive plays are “saving runs” versus which offensive plays are “Creating runs”

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:34 PM MST up reply actions  

Willy Taveras 07 Dex Fowler in the No Hitter

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 27, 2012 5:26 PM MST up reply actions  

ignoring wrc+ which is computed relative to avg, aren’t the offensive runs calculated relative to a more static replacement level player whereas defensive ratings are calculated relative to the average at that position? This may explain why defensive numbers tend to exist in a smaller range…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
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by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/spread_in_fielding_how_much_is_there/

Now, we have 9 fielding positions (though obviously the spread in each position won’t be identical). For now, let’s say that it is. So, we have 9 times x^2 = 45^2. Which, you will notice, is simply 3 times x = 45. X is therefore 15. One standard deviation in fielding is 15 runs.

That’s if you have all the players equally represented at each position. Of course, we know that’s not true. Within each position, things are more clustered. You won’t find terrible fielders at SS or great fielders at 1B. So, within one position, it’s more like one standard deviation is 10 runs.

Anyway, that basically means that 95% of players at each position will be +/- 20 runs of the positional average, and pretty much the limit will be +/- 30 runs of the positional average.

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:42 PM MST up reply actions  

This is interesting because hitters are compared to all other hitters so the dispersion is greater whereas fielders are compared to other fielders at the same position. We’d probably see a similar decrease in range of offensive values if something like a #3 hitter’s offensive value was measured relative to all other #3 hitters… though this doesn’t really add anything…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

also ignoring the fact that position in the lineup changes more frequently than position on the diamond…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

wRC, based of wOBA, is not scaled to anything

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:44 PM MST up reply actions  

wRC has 100 as average, which would mean votto is 35% better than average. Average and replacement level are different though and and I could be wrong, but I think offensive runs are relative to replacement level players…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions  

that table is wRC, not wRC+

wRC is not scaled to anything

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

ooo, right so then wRC is not relative to anything whereas defensive metrics are relative to average at that position.

I’m just basing this off of when you look at the bottom of a players’ fangraphs page where it has the component values that are aggregated into WAR. Tulo for instance is a +30 run bat and a +7 run defender, but who is he +30 over? I think it’s replacement batters, but he’s +7 relative to other shortstops in fielding.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

+38 over league average in 2011

but +50 over MLB average at SS

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 3:05 PM MST up reply actions  

wRAA is probably best for comparison to UZR/150

from FanGraphs library:

Weighted Runs Above Average (wRAA) measures the number of offensive runs a player contributes to their team compared to the average player. How much offensive value did Evan Longoria contribute to his team in 2009? With wRAA, we can answer that question: 28.3 runs above average. A wRAA of zero is league-average, so a positive wRAA value denotes above-average performance and a negative wRAA denotes below-average performance. This is also a counting statistic (like RBIs), so players accrue more (or fewer) runs as they play.

It doesn’t resolve the universe question, but it is a counting stat and therefore translates a bit better.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 2:57 PM MST up reply actions  

hmm this contrasts with what I just said. good to know.

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 3:03 PM MST up reply actions  

Honestly, if you're going to have bad defense, it might as well be at a corner outfield spot or 1st base

Scutaro’s defense at second is more important than Cuddyer’s right field defense.

Your 2012 Colorado Rockies:freshly exorcised from Ty Wigginton

by MattBerger on Feb 27, 2012 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Let me direct you

here for some great wisdom on the topic. Cuddyer doesn’t compare to this guy but he makes a point.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:42 PM MST up reply actions  

New York, huh?

I heard there was a murder there once.

Rockies in October

by sasperilla_pete on Feb 27, 2012 12:05 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

At the Copa?

Copacabana?

We're trying to win a (#)(*@$%#)@#&$#)^ argument here!!!!

In line for seats at the Grand Junction Rockies 2012 home opener

by Junction Rox on Feb 27, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I got charged $119.99 for MLB.tv today

and it the happiest I’ve ever been to spend 120 bucks. Now let’s hope the free At-Bat 12 app works on my Droid!

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 12:56 PM MST reply actions  

Stupid baseball blackout rule

I would have totally done this if I wasn’t going to be blacked out of all the Rockies games. Instead I had to go with cable… oh well, I’ll just cancel it Thursday, Nov 2nd, 2012, after the Rockies beat the Sawx in 7 games.

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Feb 27, 2012 1:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Blackout rules stnk

In Iowa, I’m blacked out from

Cubs
White Sox
Twins
Cardinals
Royal
Brewers

All are more than four hours from me… UGGH

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Um, excuse me, TuloRocks

But if you really supported baseball, you would drive to all of those cities to watch baseball, obvi. Bud Selig told me so.

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Feb 27, 2012 1:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Indeed

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

True

but he’s probably the best commissioner in major league sports right now – never thought I’d be typing THAT!

by volduck on Feb 27, 2012 4:04 PM MST up reply actions  

Not Roger Goodell?

The NFL’s experienced strong growth during his tenure and you can definitely see those strict penalties for dangerous hits causing defenders to think twice about going blindside or at the head

by steakman on Feb 27, 2012 4:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Sorry, I can afford season tickets too

the Twins, Royals and Cardinals. Chicago is two expensive and Milwaukee is too far away.

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

You're on the West side of the state right?

Milwaukee is a short 3.5 hour drive for me if I recall.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:17 PM MST up reply actions  

*hhmmppffff* I suppose next...

…you think MLB baseball should allow clips and highlights to be shared on Youtube?

No one said being a baseball fan should be easy.

Baseball, BBQ, Bourbon, Blackjack, Beer, (B)orse Racing

by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 27, 2012 2:16 PM MST up reply actions  

Totally. This is reason #3 that I want to move away from Marion.
  1. is that this is not Colorado
  2. is that there are no Mountains.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:16 PM MST up reply actions  

I would get this in an instant if the Rockies were not blacked out

We have a single TV, so having another method to watch the Rockies in the evening when everyone else outvotes me would be wonderful.

Ok, Von Doom is a way better nickname than what I liked. So cool to be excited about a pass rush in Denver again!

I want to say how awesome a particular Rockies player is and that he will be the MVP, but the last time I mentioned it in my sig he went out with an injury, so, GO PLAYER WHO IS SO AWESOME!

by Arimaris on Feb 27, 2012 4:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Irrational Cardinals Fans

A bit off topic, but does anyone else know any Cardinals fans who have completely turned their backs on Pujols?

I understand he went after the $$$, but this guy I know claims Beltran can replace him and the Cardinals will be better with Wainwright coming back. He refuses to call Pujols by name and fills his Twitter account with Pujols hate.

He was shocked yesterday when I showed him the Cardinals were predicted by Vegas behind the Reds and the Brewers in the division.

Also, I’m sick of the 12in12 nonsense.

End rant. :)

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:29 PM MST reply actions  

Sounds pretty similar to people

who hate Holliday and Melo now. Just kind of a jilted lover thing IMO.

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I always hated Melo.

I’m glad he’s gone.

The off-season sucks.
That is all.

by DAWNMARIE01 on Feb 27, 2012 1:31 PM MST up reply actions  

heh

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Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I can't hate Melo or Holliday, but I hate Cutler.

However I want to see all of their former teams beat their current teams.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't like Cutler at all

But he was right about McDaniels.

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:32 PM MST up reply actions  

This.

The off-season sucks.
That is all.

by DAWNMARIE01 on Feb 27, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

In hindsight yes.

But I really wanted to see JMcD succede in Denver.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

iawtc

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Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 1:34 PM MST up reply actions  

you may be right

Tebow at least is more likeable than the other two though.

The off-season sucks.
That is all.

by DAWNMARIE01 on Feb 27, 2012 1:35 PM MST up reply actions  

McDaniels is the least likeable of all

He set the Broncos back years with his awful trades/drafting.

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I hate that guy.

I did from day one of the Cutler fiasco because he acted like he didn’t even know his players’ names. He just kept calling Culter ‘the player’.
/not a Cutler fan btw, just thought it was incredibly arrogant and rude

The off-season sucks.
That is all.

by DAWNMARIE01 on Feb 27, 2012 1:46 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

No truer words

about the Broncos were ever uttered.

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 1:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually

as far as drafting goes, he advanced the Broncos. He fired the horrible Shanny guy and brought in Matt Russel after the 09 draft. The 10 draft under McD and the 11 draft were both good drafts.

by 3nS on Feb 27, 2012 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

In addition

Shanny left Denver a mess. About a third of the Broncos that played in 08 were out of football in 2009. Which was horrible timing because it was near impossible to sign a free agent under 30 years old. The biggest blame for the Broncos collapse should be on the scouting staff that McD fired, then on Shannahan, then on front office for not handling McDs ego better.

by 3nS on Feb 27, 2012 2:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Currently, and measuring just ability as a QB?

Yes. Tulo has a greater ceiling than Cutler I think.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

I'd rather Tulo

NOT play for the Broncos ;-) I’m fascinated to see how Tebow develops after a full offseason without any labor issues, etc.

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Feb 27, 2012 1:42 PM MST up reply actions  

I've got baseball on the mind

Can you blame me?

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:44 PM MST up reply actions  

No, not at all

I’m so sad that the stupid combine gets all this attention when Spring Training is about to start – my brain is done with football, it’s baseball time baby!

by The Toddfather's Goatee on Feb 27, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

I still participate on one football board

but its all offtopic.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:47 PM MST up reply actions  

Wait, what?

It’s not all Tebow all the time? What kind of a football board is that? :)

The off-season sucks.
That is all.

by DAWNMARIE01 on Feb 27, 2012 1:48 PM MST up reply actions  

broncosforums.com

Been online with half the people on this board since ’06.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Speaking of Tebow, How's his swing?

I’ve heard he can crush the ball

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions  

in terms of talent as a QB, probably yeah

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Good call. At least Pujols won a couple of rings before he left.

Unlike Melo, who is being led around by his fame hungry wife.

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Meh. Melo had his own reasons too.

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 1:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I will never understand the people that boo Matt Holliday...

…he got a better deal elsewhere.

Baseball, BBQ, Bourbon, Blackjack, Beer, (B)orse Racing

by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 27, 2012 2:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Hating Pujols and Holliday

is quite different from hating Melo. Only one of those attempted to torpedo the home team, and almost succeeded.

by Teekalong on Feb 27, 2012 4:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Hmm if by torpedo

you mean getting a boatload of players in return…….?

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 4:07 PM MST up reply actions  

But he didn't attempt it either

he told them well before he was traded what his intentions were…and Masai made a trade in their time frame…..

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with you that Melo didn't necessarily actively try to torpedo the team.

But I agree with Teekalong that it’s a lot more logical to have ill will towards Melo than towards Holliday and Pujols.

With Pujols, the Angels offered him more than the Cardinals could, and he took it. With Holliday, the Rockies knew that same thing would happen to them, so they acted preemptively. In either case I can hardly fault a player for wanting to maximize the value of their next contract.

With Melo, however, the Nuggets offered him more than any other team could give him, and he turned it down because he didn’t want to play in Denver any more. In addition, he intentionally limited the potential places that he could be traded to by refusing to sign an extension with anybody but the Knicks, which put the Nuggets in a very disadvantageous position when trying to negotiate a fair return for him.

The fact that the Nuggets managed to swing an excellent trade for Melo despite that is an enormous credit to Masai Ujiri and Josh Kroenke, but it’s not a positive reflection on Melo. He put the team in an extremely bad position on his way out of town, and I could certainly understand some fans being justifiably upset about it.

by Shoemaker on Feb 27, 2012 5:56 PM MST up reply actions  

But he didn't have to tell them he wanted out

He could have simply walked away in F.A. which would have left the Nuggets with nothing in the end. So even if Melo (God Forbid) wanted live and play in a city other than Denver he did do them a favor.

Whether he made the right decision is a different story, but he really didn’t screw the city or the team IMO

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 6:00 PM MST up reply actions  

josh kroenke

is josh roenicke’s bizarro-world self

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PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 6:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Understandable to be hurt, and he may be right that a whole season of Allen Craig, Healthy Holliday

Furcal and Greene in the MIF instead of Schumaker/Theriot, Adam Wainwright instead of Kyle McClellan, no more Ryan Franklin, and Carlos Beltran will more than replace Albert being gone. At least for 2012.

"Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage." ― Thucydides

by TomCat009 on Feb 27, 2012 1:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Great points.

I'm a BelieveR! Colorado Rockies: 2012 NL West Champs.

by TuloRocks on Feb 27, 2012 1:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Dear Fans, please act like you've been there before:
@JGuthrie46 Day 8 Diary:Threw live BP to hitters. After I was done a super fan came over to dugout & told me how to elevate my pitches.

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 1:32 PM MST reply actions  

That's awesome...

…everyone is an expert. I am sure Bob from Boulder had a lot of insite to share with a veteran MLB pitcher.

Baseball, BBQ, Bourbon, Blackjack, Beer, (B)orse Racing

by WhiskeyDrinkingMan on Feb 27, 2012 2:21 PM MST up reply actions  

HE'D BE BETTER WITH A DEFINED SECONDARY PITCH!!!!!

Avalanche 2011-12 season, Mission 45 Wins.
Get well soon Juan.

by Thnikkaman on Feb 27, 2012 2:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Throw the ball over the *^%&&$% plate!

We want a pitcher, not a belly-itcher!

/s/ Bob from Boulder

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I could be cool with that

We need some more aggressive hecklers in this organization …

by BostonTransplant on Feb 27, 2012 3:33 PM MST up reply actions  

Are we really that worried about defense from Right Field?

We already have a plus defender in left field, which helps raise our outfield overall. At some point you have to give up defense to score some runs and right field seems about the best place on the field to do it.

Check out the graph “Fly Balls and Line Drives by Direction” at http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/confessions-of-a-dips-apostate/ and you’ll see why. (I really wish we had pitchFx-quality data on batted-ball speed and direction, but until we have it defensive metrics will be useless and this sort of thing is about the best we can do.) There’s a pretty steep peak in both left and right field. Dex helps fill in a lot of the right-center area, meaning the only balls that are the difference between a great-fielding right fielder and a properly-positioned sub-par right fielder are on that very steep rightmost edge. Some percentage of those wont be caught that would be if we had a CarGo clone playing in right. Some percentage of assists wont be made, but how many assists does the best right fielder get in a year?

None of this is to devalue defense overall, but baseball is a game of balance and I think it’s likely that Cuddyer more than makes up for what’s lost in his defense at the plate.

"The game of baseball is made up of many little things. If we do all the little things right, then we'll never have a big thing to worry about" -- Cal Ripken, Sr.
Yankee Haters Encouragement Group Member #3

by RoarFrom112 on Feb 27, 2012 1:56 PM MST reply actions  

As argued above ...

Cuddyer may “more than make up for it” at the plate, or he might just barely make up for it. Either way, a lot of the value in his bat is given back in the field, and that is why I argued vehemently for Beltran over Cuddyer (better bat and arguably better glove even with balky knees – though UZR/150 didn’t like him in RF last year, he has fared quite well over the years in CF).

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions  

I've also been waiting to see the hit f/x data.

The system is there. I believe it uses the same cameras as pitch f/x. But we have only seen data from early 2009. I read one article this off season that used hit f/x to calibrate home run estimation, so I know some people have access. If they make it public, I think this data has the potential to revolutionize sabermetrics even more than pitch f/x did.

by RoxnSox09 on Feb 27, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions  

fowler will also be able to shade towards right more in general when cargo is out there

which will probably help. i wonder if we might see a situation like in new york, where brett gardner eats granderson’s UZR

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:33 PM MST up reply actions  

did we talk about sickels top 120 yet?

he’s got arenado at 13, and

arenado

I don’t think he is a product of the California League, let’s put it that way.

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:38 PM MST reply actions  

the last line should also be in quotes

/hard to navigate

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 2:38 PM MST up reply actions  

aw

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 3:02 PM MST up reply actions  

This is from mlbtr but
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports predicts that Bryce Harper will be with the Nationals early in the season, but not before April 25th. He notes that the outfielder must spend at least 20 days in the minors to delay his free agency by a year.

I don’t know the specifics, but would this also apply to Arenado? I imagine it would and if it does, I definitely think there’s less reason to start him at the ML level in 2012…

"These are thin mints. I put them in the freezer. My favorites. So good."
--Reds outfielder Adam Dunn, on the girl scout cookies he keeps in his locker

PRMLB: The Brew Crew

by Resolution on Feb 27, 2012 2:55 PM MST reply actions  

Harper strikes me as a lot more ML ready than Arenado

I think we’re looking at Nolan arriving around July, and that’s only if Blake is playing poorly.

by BostonTransplant on Feb 27, 2012 3:32 PM MST up reply actions  

that's contrary to basically every major scouting opinion
Harper strikes me as a lot more ML ready than Arenado

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:08 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure about that...

Harper does have the AA experience that Arenado doesn’t and is, after all, considered a generational talent on par with A-Rod and Ken Griffey Jr.

by steakman on Feb 27, 2012 4:11 PM MST up reply actions  

2 months, 146 PAs

one of which was terrible over 90 PAs, one of which was good over 56 PAs…. you can pretty much throw his AA stats out the window

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Did I say that he performed well at AA?

You can’t throw away the extra experience facing more advanced pitchers

by steakman on Feb 27, 2012 4:21 PM MST up reply actions  

i agree,

but you can’t put a lot of stock in only 146 PAs either

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:24 PM MST up reply actions  

it's certainly possible that

the stark contrast in his numbers from july to august represent him adjusting, and if he truly adjusted that quickly, to include a 50% increase in BB rate and a more than doubling of LD%, then maybe he’s better than we thought, and that’s a scary proposition

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:29 PM MST up reply actions  

funny

how both of those guys came up with Seattle…

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Disagree here ...

Harper saw significant AB’s at AA before going to the AFL.

Arenado has the better hit tool and that likely transfers better. But given Harper’s time in AA I would say he has a step up.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 4:16 PM MST up reply actions  

don't misunderstand, i'm definitely sure that harper is the better talent and will likely have the bigger career

but the possibility of arenado making our OD roster is greater than harper making the nats in my mind. as is arenado coming up earlier in the year than harper if neither makes OD

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:21 PM MST up reply actions  

I think their GM has basically said that

the plan is for Harper to be on the 25 man come Opening Day…

by steakman on Feb 27, 2012 4:22 PM MST up reply actions  

frankly i think the new super-two rules

will keep them both in the minors until mayish

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

The GM is hedging ..

it’s davey Johnson the manager who says he wants him on the team.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 4:39 PM MST up reply actions  

this is what I've been saying all along

Let him spend some time in AA at least until we get that extra Arb year. Just like the Rays did with Longoria

PRMLB - Tampa Bay Rays

by purplesocks on Feb 27, 2012 4:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Interesting exercise ...

on what Harper, et al would earn as a FA:

Paywall:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7619910/would-bryce-harper-matt-moore-mike-trout-get-more-money-free-agent-yu-darvish
To find out, I posed the following question to a variety of industry insiders at every level of baseball operations, from area scout to general manager: “The agents for the three top prospects in baseball discover a loophole, and Moore, Harper and Trout are all made free agents. Your predictions for how crazy the bidding would get and which player would get the most?”

The answers were wide-ranging, but in the end, teams are all-in on the trio.

1. Harper
Average offer: 8 years, $113 million
Best offer: 8 years, $150 million

“I would place the highest value on Harper,” said an American League official, “when given the lockup period, and a young All-Star-caliber positional player with elite hit and power skills.”

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 5:51 PM MST up reply actions  

HAHA. Yankees photo shoot at Spring Training

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/27/10519504-new-york-yankees-baseball-players-pose-for-media-day

Now if it was the Dodgers I could understand

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 3:56 PM MST reply actions  

someone should photoshop some legs into one of the stalls

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Ha!

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 4:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Evidently

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 4:15 PM MST up reply actions  

lol
Moneyball struck out at the Oscars last night, sorry Oakland fans that was your last chance at winning something this year.

Luftfeuchtigkeitsregler über alles.

/often found at the Cracker Barrell.

by The Lodo Magic Man on Feb 27, 2012 3:57 PM MST reply actions  

Well they certainly took a step in the right direction this offseason...

It sucks for A’s fans that they’re in a division with the Angels and Rangers, but Beane did a good job revamping the outfield so that the A’s actually have a somewhat respectable lineup. Also, their rotation situation is a lot like ours with a strong young starter anchoring the rotation (McCarthy), a decent vet (Colon) and a bunch of high-upside arms (Peacock, Parker, etc)

by steakman on Feb 27, 2012 4:05 PM MST up reply actions  

tripping olney was killing the moneyball jokes last night

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 4:09 PM MST up reply actions  

JFK's Quote of the Day:

“Chicks who dig home runs aren’t the ones who appeal to me. I think there’s sexiness in infield hits because they require technique. I’d rather impress the chicks with my technique than with my brute strength. Then, every now and then, just to show I can do that, too, I might flirt a little by hitting one out.” ~Ichiro Suzuki New York Times (August 22, 2009)

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:24 PM MST reply actions  

time for him to put his money where his mouth is

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:25 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh I think he's done plenty of talking in his career.

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:28 PM MST up reply actions  

And walking the talk

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:28 PM MST up reply actions  

not with home runs he hasn't

his yearly average of 9 with a .421 SLG won’t cut it batting 3rd

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Hey he said he would flirt with hitting dingers

and I would argue that 9 HR is exactly the right number for flirting. I didn’t realize we were talking about him batting third…..

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:44 PM MST up reply actions  

we're always talking about ichiro hitting 3rd.

where have you been?

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Well the quote posted by jrockies

didn’t say anything about it…/scratches head…….

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:48 PM MST up reply actions  

didn't it, cat?

didn’t it?

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I've read it three times to make sure...

I really don’t see it……

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:52 PM MST up reply actions  

muahahaha

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

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by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:53 PM MST up reply actions  

I'm starting to think you're messing with me....

Jason Hammel - permanently /2011'd
Happy Now?!
OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy

by SDcat09 on Feb 27, 2012 5:55 PM MST up reply actions  

teehee

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:57 PM MST up reply actions  

yeah ... the Mariners say they are batting him 3rd ...

… and he is working on adding more loft to his swing.

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 5:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I've heard

that during BP he can hit them out like any of the big power hitters. He once came to the plate against the Rockies and it was an instance where I could see he was going to hit it out and he did. I always vote for him to be in the home run derby, to bad he never gets invited.

"There have been only two geniuses in the world. Willie Mays and Willie Shakespeare." ~Tallulah Bankhead
"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~Greg, age 8
Assistant GM of the PRMLB Cincinnati Reds
JFK

by jrockies on Feb 27, 2012 5:58 PM MST up reply actions  

All bets are off ...

I’m sure it’s been referenced somewhere on the Row, but Moscoso learned the cutter!

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_20051414

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 5:29 PM MST reply actions  

Soft balls ...
But Moscoso comes to the Rockies with a cautionary history, carrying a reputation as an extreme flyball pitcher. His flyball total of 55.5 percent in 2011 was the most among any pitcher with more than 120 innings. He also gave up 14 homers.

“He does give up a lot of flyballs,” O’Dowd said. “But they are soft flyballs.”

by Traindogger on Feb 27, 2012 5:32 PM MST up reply actions  

as much as jokes about guys "learning a cutter" get thrown around

i am intrigued by how a pitcher who uses a cutter frequently at coors field would fare

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:35 PM MST up reply actions  

he's certainly got the name for it

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 5:54 PM MST up reply actions  

In Denver for work today

and got the Rockies fever listenin to sports talk radio and drivin past coors….

A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves

by waterboy31321 on Feb 27, 2012 7:57 PM MST reply actions  

OT; See what happens when a Nascar hits a jet dryer. This happened under a caution. Not a Nascar fan but this is funny.

Spring Training is here. Let's hope Jim Tracy don't screw it up with matchupzzz. Self taught and falling in love with this game is very easy to do, you can never hate it, and that is something that not one person can take away from anybody. The love of baseball and OUR COLORADO ROCKIES. Can't wait until fantasy starts also. This will be the 4th year for my team. The Blake St. Bombers.

by Roxman4ever on Feb 27, 2012 8:08 PM MST reply actions  

bad time to be named sizemore

Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort

PRMLB Arizona Diamondbacks GM

by papality on Feb 27, 2012 8:45 PM MST reply actions  

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  1. Drew Pomeranz, LHP - AAA
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  30. Hector Gomez, SS - DL
HM:
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Mike Zuanich, 1B - AA
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