Monday Morning Rockpile: Thank you veterans

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2007 7:54 AM MST in Rockpile

While veteran presence is overrated in the game of baseball, it's something we couldn't live without in real life. Thank you to all Purple Row readers who have served or who are currently serving in the armed forces.

Today is also for honoring NL rookies, and either Troy Tulowitzki or Ryan Braun will walk away with the big award in what will inevitably be a disappointment to the second place finisher, given that the two -Braun with his bat, Tulo with his glove- put up a couple of historically impressive seasons. In an article for subscribers on Friday, Baseball Prospectus' Jim Baker points out that in the last quarter century, only Mark McGwire, Frank Thomas and Albert Pujols have had a higher WARP3 than Tulo. Meanwhile, Braun's spectacular bat -with the highest slugging percentage ever for a qualified rookie- certainly makes a strong case for giving him the nod. Both players and their teams seem to have bright futures ahead, and plenty more hardware should come regardless of who wins.

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Braun wins NL ROY by 2 points over Tulo

by Blake20th on Nov 12, 2007 12:03 PM MST reply actions

I suppose

I shouldn't be all that surprised. Today's MLB is all about the offense. Never mind the fact that Ryan E-5 Braun couldn't field a beachball with a harpoon...

by oo_nrb on Nov 12, 2007 12:08 PM MST up reply actions

Nobody

should be surprised by this after Tulo got screwed over for the Gold Glove. Better come to grips with Holliday not getting MVP too.

by cofan17 on Nov 12, 2007 12:12 PM MST up reply actions

I already

prepped myself for that. I figured that a couple Gold Gloves were our best shot for a post-season award, followed by ROY, with MVP being the biggest long-shot.

The real shot in the arm would be if Hurdle wins MOY. This was the player's year, not Clint's, and to rob Melvin of NL MOY would be preposterous.

by oo_nrb on Nov 12, 2007 12:16 PM MST up reply actions

2 points...

I knew it would be really close (though not quite this close), but I had hoped Tulo would come out on top. Braun had a total of 128, Tulo had 126. Braun had two more 1st place votes and 1 third place vote, Tulo had no 3rd place votes. Apparently it was the closest vote since the current system started in 1980. It's basically a statistical tie, in my mind.

Oh well. I'd still rather have Tulo.

by holly96 on Nov 12, 2007 12:23 PM MST up reply actions

Wow

2 points is so close - they say its the closest race in the history of the voting system since being adopted in 1980: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071112&content_id=2298624&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

its just a shame Tulo did not get official recognition for his year in the field either between ROY or the Golden Glove debacle

by midwest roxfan on Nov 12, 2007 12:16 PM MST reply actions

It's a shame

but I'd rather have an NL Pennant flying over Coors field than a ROY or MVP trophy sitting one of our player's houses. Tulo had a great season and would have won both awards if he didn't play in the "lost time zone". Matt will probably lose to J-Roll because of the "Coors Effect" and defense, even though that's a hypocritical argument.

Is it spring yet?

by Volorado on Nov 12, 2007 12:19 PM MST reply actions

I agree completely...

individual post-season awards are nice, but the Rockies did indeed get the ultimate post-season award...an NL pennant and a World Series appearance. I think we'd all be happy to take the same scenario in '08.

(And maybe if that happens again, Rockies' players will derserve and get more respect from the national media.)

by moose14 on Nov 12, 2007 12:38 PM MST up reply actions

Awards are stupid

Jeter has won multiple gold gloves... They mean nothing.

by arosenthal on Nov 12, 2007 1:46 PM MST reply actions

It is not that simple

While the awards themselves are based on a shaky selection process, there are many parties that still place a great deal of weight on them that can't be dismissed, namely:

Most Fans,
Broadcasters,
Writers & Media,
Hall of Fame voters,
Arbitrators,

As such, these awards translate into notoriety, affect player and team profiles, and of course, dollars in free agency.

To dismiss them out of hand is to oversimplify.

by Roberbola on Nov 12, 2007 1:57 PM MST up reply actions

So in a sick twisted way

missing on awards is good for the payroll?

Also, anyone remember which massively overrated Arizona 1B beat Todd Helton to the Rookie of the Year in 1998? How'd his career turn out?

by moomacher on Nov 12, 2007 2:09 PM MST up reply actions

Ummm

Kerry Wood didn't play for the D-Backs.. and he didn't play 1b

by wolf213 on Nov 12, 2007 2:23 PM MST up reply actions

Weird

That's funny that Kerry Wood won that year, as I also had it in my head that Travis Lee (the D-Backs 1st baseman) had won. Maybe because there was so much debate that year over the two rookie first baseman, and because I knew Todd hadn't won it, I just assumed Lee had. I had to go look it up to see that Todd was 2nd and Lee was 3rd (and a distant 3rd, at that).

by holly96 on Nov 12, 2007 2:58 PM MST up reply actions

Wow

I was sure that Travis Lee won it that year...

by moomacher on Nov 12, 2007 3:45 PM MST up reply actions

I think not...

Lee with his 103+ OPS was the first, but not the last, in a long series of first-basemen who underachieved for us (though some did very nicely elsewhere). See also Erubiel Durazo, Lyle Overbay, Alex Cabrera, Shea Hillenbrand and, in some circles, Conor Jackson.

AZ SnakePit
Home of the 2007 NL West Champion AZ Diamondbacks

by AZ Snakepit on Nov 12, 2007 8:09 PM MST up reply actions

Argh

Not that I'm really surprised or anything, but...shouldn't it matter how the team did, off field contributions, and defense? Sigh.

I can't WAIT for the MVP to come out.

I'll find you in the morning sun/and when the night is new/I'll be looking at the moon/but I'll be seeing you

by Squeaky on Nov 12, 2007 2:57 PM MST reply actions

BIG sigh

Oh well. I didn't really expect Tulo to win either, but it was still a small heartbreak when the news came. Don't get your hopes too high about the MVP. My gut tells me that Matt finishes second in that one as well.

2 other things: Your signature is from one of my all-time favorite songs. It is way cool to see it on a baseball blog. Also, please give Silverblood a shout-out from the Row. I hope she's doing well and will be back with us soon!

2007 NL Champions, baby!

by rockhead on Nov 12, 2007 7:43 PM MST up reply actions

2005 ROY voting

I was just checking out the past ROY voting, and check out the 2005 ballot. The Rockies current team includes 4 of the 9 players that received votes that year.

by holly96 on Nov 12, 2007 3:02 PM MST reply actions

It's Meaningless

Poll every GM and ask them this question:

If you had Troy Tulowitzki, would you trade him straight up for Ryan Braun?

How many would say yes? I'm guessing none --and that includes the Brewers GM if he's being honest.

Tulo will the starting All-Star game SS for a decade. The fact that he didn't win the ROY will be little more than a curious historical footnote.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Nov 12, 2007 3:20 PM MST reply actions

plus

winning multipul gold gloves, mvps, world series , and possibly batting titles.

Frank tv premiers nov 20

by roxfan4life on Nov 12, 2007 3:26 PM MST up reply actions

I understand

where you are coming from with this thread...but there is NO WAY Tulo is going to be the starting SS in the All-Star game while Jimmy Rollins, Hanley Ramirez, and Jose Reyes are playing that position on the East coast. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a better SS than all of them, but the All-Star games, much like most of these awards, are nothing but a popularity contest and Tulo plays in the wrong timezone to gain ANY popularity over those three guys. I think he will be in the All-Star game many, many times, but not starting over whichever one of those three dominates the East coast voting for that particular year.

by cofan17 on Nov 12, 2007 3:51 PM MST up reply actions

OK

I really wasn't thinking from a voting aspect, rather from a "universally understood by baseball people to be the best SS in the NL" standpoint.

While we're on the subject, it would be nice if the Rockies would do a better job of getting their fans to vote their guys in. It's typically a pretty haphazard effort.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Nov 12, 2007 4:25 PM MST up reply actions

Tulo should've won it

We should've been buried under Gold Gloves. And there should be more Broncos in the Hall of Fame. I bet the ex-pats out on the east coast can tell you, they don't even think we have paved streets out here, let alone a baseball team. One of my clients was surprised we saw "Seinfeld" out here and were able to get the humor - I guess she figured all we could handle was "Hee-Haw." No, you wouldn't trade Tulo for Braun straight up but expecting any respect from the wrong side of the country is a losing proposition. I think the players get that. We'll have to take it in stride.

by Since1993 on Nov 12, 2007 3:43 PM MST reply actions

Don't you know,

we're just a cow town? I mean, I rode a horse to school, didn't you?

But seriously, I had a friend growing up who had relatives on the east coast, and people out there would ask her in all seriousness if she owned a horse.

And my personal favorite example happened in an episode of ER a few years back. One of the doctors went to Colorado for a job interview. When she came back, someone asked her what she did while she was there. Her answer? She had gone to a rodeo and had purchased cowboy boots. I was so fuming mad when I saw that. No wonder there's been such a misconception about Colorado and Denver in particular, if that's the type of thing people see. I mean, I grew up in Colorado, and the only rodeo I've ever been to was the National Western Stock Show one year on a school field trip. And I'm not even sure I would know where to buy cowboy boots.

by holly96 on Nov 12, 2007 5:20 PM MST up reply actions

Yes,

I saw some cop show set in L.A. where a representative from the Denver Sheriff's Department came to provide assistance to the LAPD on a case and he was all dressed up like something out of "Gunsmoke." Guess they didn't think to imagine that we have a city police department who go around all day (in cars, no less) looking like cops.

by Since1993 on Nov 12, 2007 7:02 PM MST up reply actions

Rockies have been robbed!

First it was Tulo and Helton not receiving gold gloves. Tulo had an awesome year in the field - leading National League shortstops in fielding percentage, total chances, assists, putouts, double plays turned, and range factor. He was 2nd to Vizquel in zone rating and least amount of errors (along with 4 others). Plus he was only 22 and a rookie, playing the most demanding position on the infield and making so many amazing plays. Helton had probably his best season in the field as he lead NL first baseman in fielding percentage, range factor, and committed the fewest errors. He was 2nd to Adrian Gonzalez in many other categories so if it wasn't Todd, it should have gone to Gonzalez. Who did it go to? Derrick Lee of the Cubs. Yeah he's a good first baseman, but he wasn't the best this year. And how did a team who was the best fielding team in the history of this game not have a single player win a gold glove?

Now, Tulo gets robbed again - this time from the Rookie of the Year. He really deserved it. He's the much better all-around player than Ryan Braun. Bruan had what - 26 errors in 112 games? Yeah he put up big numbers offensively but it's not the best offensive rookie, it's the best all-around rookie and that was Tulo. I wasn't really all that surprised, but I was really disappointed. I am surprised that it was that close - 2 points! I'd still take Troy over Ryan anyday.

Expect another award to get robbed from the Rockies - the MVP next week to Jimmy Rollins. At least we got one award - Holliday's silver slugger award. I think Hurdle should win Manager of the Year for guiding this young team from a 4th place-12 games back season in 2006 to a National League Championship season in 2007. But with the way things have gone, it'll probably go to someone else.

No one cares or pays attention to the Rockies outside of the Rocky Mountain region except for those Rockies fans who live outside the Rocky Mountain region.

The one thing to remember though, is that the Rockies 2007 National League Championship can never be robbed.

Rocktober is the best month!

by rockin randy on Nov 12, 2007 6:53 PM MST reply actions

welp...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6925

according to BP: "Troy Tulowitzki wasn't robbed by much, but he was robbed."

by oxsnard on Nov 12, 2007 8:15 PM MST reply actions

Here's something to look at:

Silverblood wrote an article on ROY and the gold glove. As usual, it's incredible. Silverblood is much too modest to submit it anywhere, and she'll probably get pretty upset with me for posting it without her consent, but it's a must read. As I've tried to remind her, writers write to share with the world.

The link is here .

Take a good look. The numbers don't lie.

I'll find you in the morning sun/and when the night is new/I'll be looking at the moon/but I'll be seeing you

by Squeaky on Nov 12, 2007 10:09 PM MST reply actions

not gettin anything

im interested though. could you try again thanks squeaky

Frank tv premiers nov 20

by roxfan4life on Nov 12, 2007 10:34 PM MST up reply actions

sorry...

http://www.sparksofdementia.blogspot.com

Try that...if the link doesn't work, cut and paste I guess?

I'll find you in the morning sun/and when the night is new/I'll be looking at the moon/but I'll be seeing you

by Squeaky on Nov 12, 2007 11:02 PM MST up reply actions

The reason

he lost is because he couldn't hit for shit on the road... Maybe someday he will, but he didn't this season.
Sure, Tulo is a more important player because of the position he plays, but Braun hit the cover off the ball. My guess is if Tulo had hit slightly better on the road to push his average above .300, he would have gotten the award.
Either way, you can't complain that Braun didn't deserve it.

by arosenthal on Nov 13, 2007 12:08 AM MST reply actions