Friday Morning Rockpile: Barbarians and Nuts

We got'em right where we want'em.

I doubt we'd be the first team to come back from 2-0. I know Pittsburgh came back twice from 3-1.

by labajas on Oct 26, 2007 9:05 AM MDT reply actions

Sox and unclean hands?

Why has there not been more reporting about the suspicious "leak" of Indian's hurler Paul Byrd's use of HGH on the eve of Game 7 of the ALCS. The suspect? George Mitchell - Board Director for the Sox. See here: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7365076?MSNHPHMA

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 9:18 AM MDT reply actions

like the article says

the timeing is damaging by itself, even if its true byrd wasnt part of the mitchell report. But i dont feel bad for byrd or the indians. For one thing his claims of buying $25k of hgh for prescriptions is starting to fall apart. Turns out the name of the "doctor" on the prescription is a dentist. His own club even cast a small amount of doubt on him at a recent press conference when shapiro said nothing more than he was going to let it play out. And finally, byrd wasnt even pitching in game 7, its no excuse for the indians loss. Whoever leaked this information was clearly taking a low shot at the indians, but what can you do, it was real information. And regardless, nobodies looking forward to the mitchell report.

by wildblueyonder on Oct 26, 2007 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions

and really...

if you ask me, it was probably a boston sensationalist journalist (they have a surplus) with ties to the "spa" found this in their records and went "oh boy! i can make a big media splash!"

by wildblueyonder on Oct 26, 2007 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions

Fox TV's production is LOUSY!

Anybody else bothered by that shameless shilling for Taco Bell last night. What is the matter with Fox! There's a game going on and they're shilling for a company that dispenses horrible food and then show a lame video of Papelbon dancing.

Oh, and another thing. I am SICK to death of Fox cutting away to show the Sox bullpen drummer corps. Okay, it was funny initially but the novely wore off a LONG time ago. Now, it's highly annoying.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 9:26 AM MDT reply actions

NY Times: Fox TV's shameful shilling of Taco Bell

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/sports/baseball/26sandomir.html?em&ex=1193544000&en=1066bb cfb3f6a29e&ei=5087%0A

Here's an example of the unseemly and tawdry Fox coverage:

"Then, after Ortiz's flyout, Fox cut to the Red Sox bench where Royce Clayton, who was wired for Fox, and Coco Crisp (their combined 2007 salary: $5.3 million), engaged in 40 seconds of taped, unprompted (?), cheerful chit-chat about how to get those tasty freebies.

Did anyone worry that Manny Ramírez was at the plate?

Or was this just a case of letting Taco Bell be Taco Bell?

Last night during Game 2, Jacoby Ellsbury's fourth-inning steal started the taco giveaway; Clayton, wired again, chatted up the taco deal, and Fox's Chris Myers interviewed the Taco Bell chief operating officer Rob Savage, who looked like the happiest executive in America. Myers provided the ultimate gleeful coda for the fast-food chain, which doesn't necessarily fit his journalistic duties.

"We're thinking outside the bun," he said. Oy!"

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 9:31 AM MDT up reply actions

That was pathetic

A real lowpoint for sports television.

I did get a laugh out of Joe Buck's sarcastic "Great work, Chris" after that "interview" and he and McCarver laughing about it. But man, what a disgrace.

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 9:43 AM MDT up reply actions

I hate FOX

At least I haven't seen shots of FOX TV stars in the stands or "American Idol" has-beens singing the National Anthem as per usual. And I don't recall "TRANSFORMERS" flashed upon the screen when replays were aired, as in the ALCS. That's about the best I can say about their coverage. (Memo to Eric Bynres: Dude, you're on national TV @ the World Series. Dress like a grown up.)

We're stuck with FOX carrying the WS until 2013. Hooray.

by SpongeDan on Oct 26, 2007 10:07 AM MDT up reply actions

Eric Byrnes?

That is him dressing like a grownup.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions

Bye bye Eric Byrnes

I just read the Byrnes is being replaced by Joe Girardi for the games in Denver, which makes me very happy. Not so much because of Byrnes, but because I've always had a soft spot for Girardi after the early years.

by holly96 on Oct 26, 2007 11:28 AM MDT up reply actions

I complained about this same thing last night.

Two nights ago, it looked and sounded at least somewhat authentic, but last night was just shameless. Not only did they cut away for what seemed like half an inning, but it was like Royce Clayton (the same fellow, INCIDENTALLY, who was miked two nights ago and was talking about Taco Bell) was reading from a freaking promo prompt.

First, Taco Bell destroyed Mexican food. Next, they destroyed the lives of the Immokalee tomato workers (they lost THAT battle, though) before finally destroying baseball.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 10:41 AM MDT up reply actions

I totally agree

I so tired of the SOX...er FOX announcers I had to turn off the sound in the 5th inning. I tried the radio....that was ok, but it was a full minute ahead of the TV. I ended up watching the last 2 inning on total "MUTE"

Here's some game notes for the announcing team:

we didn't play the Cubs in the NLDS..we swept the Phillies
We don't play in Mile High Stadium...haven't in a long time..in fact Mile High is a parking lot..has been for 4 years now
The National League is not a minor league. Sure the Red Sox and Yankees treat all other teams like they were minor league teams by signing free agent contracts for one player that's more then some teams can pay their entire team, but just cause we are treated like 2nd class citizens, doesn't make it so.
Our team is not full of "unknowns". In fact many (100's of thousands) fantasy baseball fans know our players. Just cause you "reporters" are too lazy to do basic home work and Carver doesn't know them...doesn't make them "unknown". It also doesn't make them bad.
Losing 2 games does not make the series over. Harder for the Rockies? Sure...not over
Even if the Rockies lose this series...that doesn't mean "we suck" (mostly to Sox 'fans'). Show some class....it's better if you beat the best then beat the worst.

Bottom line: I couldn't be prouder of this team. To get to this stage, from where they were, and how they played at many points of the season is just remarkable. We are David, We are the little Engines that CAN, We are the Washington Generals, we didn't quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.....We are the little guy, the guy that never dated the cheerleader, the guy that picks up the trash on Tuesday morning, we are the person that didn't have the $20 cover to get into the cool club...we are the Twins, the A's, the Royals, the D-Rays, the Pirates....And I couldn't be prouder!

Go Rockies! We can still win this thing!

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions

I think...

heroic music started playing in the background while I read that.

Don't forget you're also still representing the National League, the small budget teams, the small market teams, probably most of the American League, and all that is good and righteous in this world... against the Northeast.

Stick it to 'em.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions

Schilling's departure ...

Another instance where Fox dropped the ball last night is immediately cutting away for yet another Taco Bell commercial just as Schilling was replaced. Here's one of the game's great post-season pitchers playing, in perhaps, his last World Series game and Fox didn't linger even long enough for the applause and the hat tip.

As a fan of the game, I am digusted with this production by Fox.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions

I hit disgusted

during the pre-game of Game 1. Now it's just sickening. Hey FOX, can we please play some baseball now? And, you know, not talk about tacos?

Oh, and by the way, the team that plays for the NL is the ROCKIES, who play in COORS FIELD, which is NOT a launching pad for offense anymore. Just because our pitchers are not Josh Beckett or come from Japan do NOT mean they don't matter! They were the NL CHAMPS, in case you missed it.

Also, manager interviews are distracting and not informative. At least you managed to do a split-screen this time, but even almost screwed that up (cut to Helton just in time to see him make contact, cut out the rest of the AB's totally).

And the Red Sox bullpen playing music is NOT CUTE ANYMORE. Oh, and neither is that hyper dancing kid that you showed incessantly in Game 1 and then felt compelled to include in montages in Game 2.

How about this: we let the home TV markets cover the playoff series' for each home team, and let nationwide TV cover it for the rest of the country; at least, until FOX can learn to broadcast a game properly.

by oo_nrb on Oct 26, 2007 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions

It's time to be blunt

I love Atkins and Helton as much as the next guy, but it's time to say it -- their offensive production in this postseason is nothing short of shameful. (Helton - .182, 2 RBI; Atkins .171, 1 RBI)

What do the Sox prove time and again? When it matters, big time players step up big time.

Where are the big time players on this team not named Matt Holliday? Watching guys stand there befuddled as they look at strike three, or seeing hitters like Helton and Atkins expand their zones is, essentially, watching hitters declare "I can not stand this pressure."

While I'm not at all happy with Tulo, Hawpe, Tavares and the rest, I have to hold Atkins & Heltomn up to a different standard. These are veteran guys with gaudy regular season numbers. They are the linchpins of this teams' offense, and they are failing miserably.

In my heart, I never really expected this team to roll over the Red Sox -- but I never would have imagined that players of such offensive pedigree would go this deeply into the tank. I feel like we've found something out about them -- and it's something I don't really like.

That all said, I sincerely hope I eat these words starting tomorrow.

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 9:40 AM MDT reply actions

Taveras and Spilborghs ...

Taveras needs to take a seat. Allow Cory Sullivan an opportunity. Here's a typical Taveras AB: Show the bunt and take Strike # 1; foul one and take Strike # 2; Swing or take looking for Strike # 3. Willy, we all know you show the bunt on # 1. Time for new strategy. But you say, "We need Willy's speed." I agree, but when Willy had the sole opportunity to steal he did not.

Ryan Spilborghs will sit for the next 3 games (if needed) b/c on the no-DH, but should sit for the rest of the series. But given the PH opportunity, put Seth Smith, Jeff Baker or even Jamey Carroll up there. Spilborghs' next AB should come in spring training. I mean, really, 3 Ks - all looking - and the last one where he didn't even take the bat off his shoulder? That's beyond ridiculous. That would be like me getting up there and seeing a curveball. (Which is why I finally called it quits on American Legion ball.)

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions

I like Tavares

but like all the Rockies it seems they are overwhelmed with the situation. Rusty, lost, struggling, pressing...what ever you want to say. Tavares fielding and range makes up for his hitting. But he CAN hit. So can Hawpe, so can Atkins, so can Spillbourghs....but they haven't.

I'd move Tavares to 8th hole, put Kaz 1, Tulo 2. Tavares then can bunt his way on in front of the pitcher. If he steals 2nd, the pitcher can bunt him over to third, where a wild pitch scores him.

The player I'd sit is Hawpe. He's not even coming close....he's way off. Normally I say play Spilly...but I might start Seth Smith.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions

They can't make changes

lest it becomes subjective accountability.

You can't remove Taveras and tell him he isn't cutting it while allowing the middle guys to stay where they are, likewise the middle guys can't go anywhere or they'll note the poor play of the role players.

Why move Taveras out for Matsui? Outside of Spilborghs, Mastsui has looked the worst at the plate, with a swing that looks completely incapable of staying in the zone long enough to make contact and no perception of a strike zone. You can't replace bad with bad right now.

The Rockies best bet is just to continue to trust the lineup they run out there, because there are just too many "goats" right now for tinkering to make a difference. Hurdle's greatest attribute is his trust in his players, and I don't expect that to change after dropping two to the class of the league.

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions

I guess my point was,

that, yes, Tavares, Matsui and others are also killing this team, but you have hold Atkins & Helton to a higher level of accountability. These guys are, at least during the regular season, remarkably gifted hitters who this team desperately needs, and they're coming up way, way short.

Tinkering with Willy or Spillborghs can't hide the real problem. The players we had hoped would carry this team have wilted, while the Red Sox big-time hitters are delivering the goods.

Unless and until that changes, who's playing CF or 2B really doesn't matter.

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 10:21 AM MDT up reply actions

Atkins' defensive miscue

That sharp grounder to left by Ramirez with 2 outs in the 5th could have been caught. To me, that one play was the difference in the game. Otherwise, the Rockies played the Red Sox completely even.

On a happy(?) note, the ERA of our regular season bullpen is a sparkling 0.00... Sadly, so is that of the Red Sox pen.

by jakester @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions

It's time for changes

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. The point, for me at least, is that Taveras is suppose to get his butt on base where his speed will come into play. All he's using that speed for right now is to high-tail it back to the dugout. The fact that Matty had 4 hits last night and we scored exactly 1 run is the tell-all. If we can't get Willy or Kaz on base, Matty can hit like a man possessed and it will make little or no difference.

My hope is that Hurdle will a least tinker a little bit for Game 3, and see what happens. We won a bunch of games in September against good teams without Willy. I really think it's time to go back to line-up (at least once) and see what happens.

"Wishes come true, not free." - Stephen Sondheim

by rockhead on Oct 26, 2007 11:43 AM MDT up reply actions

I'm actually pretty confident

about games 3 and 4. Fogg will do his thing against Daisuke and I'll take my chances with Cook agaimst Lester anytime, anywhere. What worries me is game 5 with Veckett on the mound. He's 3-0 with a 3.60 ERA at Coors.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 9:48 AM MDT reply actions

I good with the pitching matchupst oo, but....

...if this team doesn't start hitting it really doesn't matter who we throw out there.

Our guys pitched a beautiful game yesterday only to be let down by the bats. You give up 2 runs to this Red Sox team in Fenway, you're not facing Beckett and you don't walk out a winner? That's hard to swallow.

The bats had better show up big time in Coors or my game five tickets won't be worth the paper they're printed on.

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions

Confident with Foggy?

I like Josh Fogg as much as anyone and he's a "great clubhouse guy". However, anyone who says he has confidence in Fogg must not have watched the Oct. 1 (and on into Oct. 2) wild-card play-in game when he gave up something like 6 runs.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions

Yes

I watched Game 3 of the NLCS where Fogg held Arizona to a run over six great innings. So yeah, I think it's just fine to be confident in the Fogger.

mvn.com/mlb-rockies - Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Oct 26, 2007 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions

Bullpen Drummers must be stopped

Am I the only one who goes into a blinding rage everytime I hear those idiots drumming in the bullpen. Also, Fox, Is it really necessary to cut to that between every pitch??? It gets old very quickly. Fox suck, Sox suck, and the last two games the Rox suck. I'm seeing that lame ass Paplebon sign in my sleep.

by Blake20th on Oct 26, 2007 10:10 AM MDT reply actions

Sox drum corps ...

Not only does Fox feel complelled to constantly cut to the Sox bullpen, but they have the bullpen miked for sound to pick up the racket. We get it - they're a bunch of wacky pitchers. Like I said above, the novelty has worn off.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 10:22 AM MDT up reply actions

Anyone

against the release of a mountain lion or black bear behind the center field wall to help with that umm... racket in the visitor's bullpen?

Think of the added effect a live animal would add to coors field. We could have the Rally Bear!

by wolf213 on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions

I Agree

We used to have the Denver Bears, why not a rally bear? It would give the stupid Boston bullpen pitchers something else to do besides practice their next drumline impression. God I hate Fox and Sox (but not the Rox)!

by easccp on Oct 26, 2007 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions

If the Sox bullpen starts drumming,

it'll wake up the bear.

Good incentive to quit making noise.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions

Too much

I liked it the first time. I thought it was amusing to see what they do down there, though it could also be the band geek in me.

But after about the 2nd time, I was tired of it. They don't need to show it every single time. Good thing we're going to Coors now, so we won't get that anymore.

by holly96 on Oct 26, 2007 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions

I agree

I'd love to see the bullpen try that in Coors...

Timlin: Umm...so, where's the metal? And the supports?

Papelbon: Screw that, where's the roof?

Lopez: Well...we can bang on...these trees here...

Okajima: Crap, my drumstick just fell into the pond.

Joe Buck and Tim McCarver: Oh, those WACKY Boston bullpenners...

by oo_nrb on Oct 26, 2007 11:32 AM MDT up reply actions

I loved the look on Papelbon's face

he looked like he was about to snap on his teammates down there. I think he was about to say
"FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WILL YOU GUYS PLEASE STOP?! IT'S NOT FUNNY ANYMORE AND I'M TRYING TO CONCENTRATE OVER HERE!"

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions

Oh, and before I forget...

Boyz 2 Men singing God Bless America?

What, was Keith Sweat already booked?

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 10:30 AM MDT reply actions

B2M

I think they asked Terrance Trent D'Arby first, but he might actually be dead.

Personally I was holding out for Jodeci.

mvn.com/mlb-rockies - Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Oct 26, 2007 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions

I say we top them....

Here's our God Bless America singers:

http://www.toshaonline.blogger.com.br/whodini.jpg

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions

Or even better....

Cameo!

Bust into a little "Word Up" right in the middle of God Bless America. Now THAT would make me proud to be an American.

Bill Buckner, Bucky Dent and Babe Ruth Agree: Boston Sucks!

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions

New Kids on the Block

had to be at a 7-11 grand opening in Boise, or something like that.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions

After the Red Sox rolled over the Rockies

on Wednesday night, FOX considers this World Series a joke and now is treating it as such. It's broadcasters are acting like it is a game show needing to get a laugh every second. The producers focus on anyone and anything Red Sox that will keep the east coast fan base amused and interested while cramming every last bit of shameless excessive advertisement into game time. If the Rockies had won these first two games they would all be a loss for words. Let's hope that is the case on Saturday.

by tailgateparty on Oct 26, 2007 10:44 AM MDT reply actions

Bring back Jack Buck ...

How I long for the voices of Jack Buck - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Buck and Vin Scully.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions

Im all for some Vin scully.

hmm Vin might give the redsox fans nightmares of this "Little roller up along first . . . behind the bag! It gets through Buckner! Here comes Knight and the Mets win it!"

by jaxROXdisciple on Oct 26, 2007 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions

I grew up

listening to the St. Louis Cardinals...I love Jack Buck.

Vin Scully is doing ESPN radio of the world series

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions

Vin Scully? Really?

You mean Jon Miller?

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions

I didn't listen

long...but Vin Scully was on Wednesday night. Might have been like a guest thing or something.

Granted I was pissed and a little buzzed at the time

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 8:32 PM MDT up reply actions

I didn't listen long either,

but I know the PBP was being done by Jon Miller and Joe Morgan was providing color "analysis". I've listened to the radio broadcast of both games so far in my car before coming home and turning on the tube, and I haven't yet heard Scully.

Would be kinda nice to have him doing the broadcast, though. I'll bet you're right, he was a guest.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 27, 2007 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions

Cmon!

All this moaning about FOX and the Sox doesn't do jack. The plain truth is that the Rox need to pitch more aggressively and light a fire under some of the bats. It seems that everybody is afraid to pitch inside to keep the Sox off the plate. Maybe if they knock Youkilis (if he plays) or Manny off the plate and get a little brouhaha going, that might get a fire lit!

by purplerain on Oct 26, 2007 11:06 AM MDT reply actions

Ummm ... we're you watching last night?

Jimenez's control was so scary, MY palms were sweating. He went well beyond moving guys off the plate. His hit of Drew was nothing compared to the near beanings of two of the Sox players. That one that almost hit Youkilis could have been a career-ender as it almost hit the back of his neck.

by DakotaBoy on Oct 26, 2007 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions

Hey, those were my favorite parts of the game!

by tailgateparty on Oct 26, 2007 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions

The fire will be lit

by the team returning to Denver. Mile High magic will be in full force (even though we don't play there anymore...I'm looking at you, Tim McCarver) and will be able to sparkplug the offense. But moving Taveras out of the leadoff spot can't hurt either...Matsui starting the rally in the Wild Card play-in game, anyone?

by oo_nrb on Oct 26, 2007 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions

Mile High magic

still technically works. Denver IS the Mile High City, after all ...

by Quiz23 on Oct 26, 2007 3:15 PM MDT up reply actions

I just Read the comments on Rox Girls

latest blog over on yahoo. I think I want to personally drive up to Boston and beat some people with a wooden spoon. Those jackasses keep saying that we're playing AAA baseball in the NL. Give it a rest.

by Blake20th on Oct 26, 2007 11:54 AM MDT reply actions

The American League IS better - it's fact

The AL was 137-115 in interleague play this year, 154-98 in 2006 and 136-116 in 2005. That's 98 games over .500 in the last three years.

This also may shed some light as to why some feel that way: http://sabermetricresearch.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-much-better-is-al-than-nl.html

by Reasonable Sox Fan on Oct 26, 2007 12:07 PM MDT reply actions

Let me amend that

I'm sorry, I should change that - to call it "AAA baseball" is a slap in the face. My bad.

by Reasonable Sox Fan on Oct 26, 2007 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions

YankSox fans trying to make me hate baseball

But I won't do it! It remains a great sport. Go Rockies!!!

by jakester @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 1:03 PM MDT reply actions

Coverage/Boston Fans

While it is true the Rockies still have not played at the level they were playing and it still is not too late, one almost wants them to come back more to put those obnoxious Boston fans in their place then for the championship itself! The coverage has been beyond biased; MLB should allow for each local team's coverage to also be available. But to keep panning over not just to the Sox bullpen, but to the entitled fans who think they should be banging on the sides of the cheap stadium walls over and over when there is a game taking place on the field...............and to cheat Curt Schilling, love him or hate him, of his perhaps final trip off the mound in Fenway for another commercial............cheap!!! One can certainly hope the bats that got the Rockies to the place they are will come alive, the outfield will be more than the Sox fielders can cover, the rust is gone, the pitching spot can be used effectively in the batting order and the pitching continues as last night, and we can go back to Boston with 2 chances to win 1 game!!!

by lahardball on Oct 26, 2007 1:11 PM MDT reply actions

Wish folks wouldn't bash Boston fans

...who have nothing against you folks. If the Sox weren't in this I, and probably many other Sox fans, would be rooting for the Rockies.

No matter what happens, your team has done some amazing things this year, and I think they have a great future.

In any case, thought you might like to see flip side of the Boston media:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/10/26/challenges_put_in_perspective/

BTW - We in Boston hate Fox too. And as much as I think Bostonians are getting a bad rap here, you guys are still classier than the Cleveland fans were.

by Soxlurker on Oct 26, 2007 1:35 PM MDT reply actions

Good article

Thanks for linking to that article, it was very well-written. I've always liked Dan Shaughnessy.

You are probably right that many of us have painted Boston fans with too broad a brush. I think some of us are just a little testy and tired of hearing from the minority that keep hammering away at how Rockies suck and the NL is AAA baseball, and how this series was over before it began, or how we're all bandwagon fans who know nothing about baseball, etc. It gets us a little defensive. But I think we know (well, at least speaking for myself) that not all of you are like that. Internet message boards (not speaking of here so much, but other places I've frequented) tend to bring out the fringe lunatics, I've found, and they tend to be louder and more obnoxious than the rest who are perfectly respectful and reasonable.

by holly96 on Oct 26, 2007 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't think it's about Red Sox fans

I think most here are taking their frustrations out on Red Sox fans for enjoying something we'd like to be doing, which is winning.

For all the complaining some fans have done about the Rockies being treated like second class citizens, the fact remains that they've played to that reputation in the first two games.

As much as I love this team, I think some are taking their hate for everything Boston and the World Series too far. At this point, all we know is that Boston is one helluva a team, and we have nothing to be ashamed of. We weren't even supposed to be this far in our development but here we are. If the Series does finally show that Boston is the far superior team, than so be it, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that we are the current crown jewel of the National League, and though that doesn't mean much to everyone, it does make the Rockies a top five ball club based on talent and performance. Best yet, this team is still a year or two from hitting its pojected peak period.

So everyone take it easy on Boston and its players. It doesn't have to be your opinion, but I find that bullpen band to be unique, entertaining and a nice show of comraderie, I enjoy the antics and talent of Papelbon and Beckett, and have long been a fan prospect-wise of Pedroia and Ellsbury.

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions

I submit my resignation

from Purple Row, at least for the next few days. I just cannot do this anymore. After struggling with depression over the summer, I managed to boot it when I went back to school, but it's coming back now with a vengeance(before the Series started, I might add) and I just have zero emotional energy to spare for the arguing, attacking, wrangling, weaving rollercoaster that this is putting me through.

It's sucked all the life out of something (Rockies baseball) that I love more than just about anything, and I have other things that need to be dealt with instead. Staying in bed until 3pm because I have no desire to get up, always feeling tired, depression, loneliness, homesickness, et all are the tip of the iceberg and that's all I really care to say because I'm tired of fighting about that as well. Tired of hearing that something I'm passionate about is somehow inferior, wrong, twisted, broken, not up to par, etc. Nothing against you all, but it's time for me to step back. I may watch the games, I don't know that I'll post. Happy trails.

Get Demented. Mother of the Baby Tulos; available at fair price for your Tulo-less ballclubs.

by Silverblood on Oct 26, 2007 2:14 PM MDT reply actions

this too shall pass

Silverblood, please take care of yourself and do what you need to do to get well. The Internet can bring out the worst in people, myself included. It's a great tool but 90% of it really is crap.

On a positive note, just think back to spring training, and how you'd feel if you knew that by this point, the Rockies would be four games away from being World Series champions and, no matter what, will always be able to fly that magnificent National League pennant over Coors Field.

I hope you can watch the games and, no matter what happens for the rest of the series, be happy that you've been able to root on this great group of guys. If not, that's okay too. They know you're with them.

Feel better!

PS - as a newbie, let me just say you're definitely the best part of PurpleRow. And the magninimity you've shown other fans is nothing short of astounding! If only we all could model our fandom around such principles...

by jakester @ Purple Row on Oct 26, 2007 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions

Feel better!

Hope to see you again soon. Watching the Rockies slap around Dice-K at Coors tonight should help, too, should you decide to. Don't listen to all those haters and bandwagon BoSox fans. We all know it's BS.

Sometimes, all depression needs is a little time. Sometimes more. But I know you'll be able to pound out your problems, whatever it may take.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions

*tomorrow night

Stupid travel day.

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions

Feel better!

I've been there too, hang tough. When you feel ready, feel free to come back anytime. I've always loved reading your insightful analysis on various things throughout the season, and you are able to put it so much more eloquently than most others.

Take care, Silverblood! :)

by oo_nrb on Oct 26, 2007 4:21 PM MDT up reply actions

We'll miss you while you're gone

Know that we're thinking of you, and hope you'll be able to come back soon. Your fight is not an easy one, I know. My partner has battled depression for years. I'll be thinking of you when our Rox storm back win and this thing!

All the best from your Rockhead.

"Wishes come true, not free." - Stephen Sondheim

by rockhead on Oct 26, 2007 9:15 PM MDT up reply actions

So, today,

I've been doing some accepting and rationalizing, and basically exorcising yesterday's demons (Rockies, pay attention).

Squeaky's first thought: I think that when this comes back to Coors, two things could happen. A) The Red Sox will sweep. B) The Rockies will win 2 or 3 and get this thing tied up and respectable. I see no halfways or in betweens.

Squeaky's second thought: I need to go back to the mentality that helped me survive the tie breaker, the NLDS, and the NLCS. I never, never, NEVER expected the Rockies to go this far, and I'll admit it freely. For each level, I'm grateful, surprised, and proud they even made it this far. I want to see the Rockies win the next two, yeah, but if that's all they do and lose the series, it's okay. It's not GOOD, never good, but it's okay, because honestly. Who thought they'd be in the World Series right now? So I'm proud, and I just have to wait until Saturday to see what happens.

Just my two cents.

www.myspace.com/notthisday.com

by Squeaky on Oct 26, 2007 2:39 PM MDT reply actions

Well

Disapointing loss last night, but when you only get five hits and four of them are by Matt Holliday (that mental error in the 8th inning didn't help either), it's very tough to win.

This series isn't over until the 27th out is recorded in a deciding game. Maybe some home cooking is exactly what the Rockies need to get this series back in the right direction!

by avsfan4ever33 on Oct 26, 2007 3:53 PM MDT reply actions

Wait Wait Wait!

First of all don't let one tolerable Red Sox fan trick you. Here are some reasons to hate the Red Sox and thier fans.

Fever Pitch. Seriously, Jimmy Fallon? NO one should ever like the Red Sox again for this reason alone.
Thier hate for the Yankees has become laughable. How can any Red Sox fan call the Yankees the evil empire anymore. The Red Sox are Evil Empire lite these days. Except the Sox only have one championship in all those years and the Yankees got A LOT!. I found myself rootig for the Yankees to come back and at least take the division title from the Red Sox just to spite thier obnoxious fans. That is how you can tell things are getting bad.
They win only one championship in 86 years and then don't shut the F*** up about it. EVER.
They want to act so self-righteous about the AL over NL talent gap. Yet, these are the same people that believe the Boston Celtics can actually win an NBA title. At least we can look foward to the Celtics having the best record in the East this year, so all those annoying Boston fans will think they are the greatest team ever only to be humiliated by the Spurs, Suns or Mavericks. That will be awesome.
Thier team, along with the yankees, ruins baseball for everyone else. They inflate the free agent market and can spend thier way out of bad descisions(sp?). Things have gotten so bad, I wouldn't be that surprised if Josh Fogg gets a 10 million dollar a year conract this offseason if he leaves. How long before this damges baseball like it did the NHL. I know baseball has 6 billion dollars in revenue and the NHL has the probably 1/12th of that, but sports popularity change over time. The NBA certainly isn't as popular as it used to be. If the George Mitchell report names a lot of names, baseball could see a drop in popularity. (It would have to be a LOT of names to make a big impact, but the possibility is still there.) The Red Sox and Yankees are the two main evils that have killed any chance of a salary cap ever being put in place.

5a. They spent 51 million to talk to one guy. Not to sign him. To TALK to him. Thats almost the Rockies payroll. It is the more than the payroll of 4 MLB teams! I wonder if deep down, red sox fans knows how bad this is for the sport.

6. Fever Pitch. I know I already wrote it, I just thought it deserves to be on here twice.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 4:46 PM MDT reply actions

Uh....

You shouldn't say or do things. Ever.
None of that really made sense.

by arosenthal on Oct 26, 2007 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions

Yeah, well

I am really stoned and it made sense in my brain.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 5:50 PM MDT up reply actions

Not all Sox fans are the same...

Just wanted to check in on the site - I know there are a lot of obnoxious bandwagon jumping Red Sox fans out there who have no class and show no respect to the fans of their opponents.

Not all of us are that way - trust me. Believe it or not, there are some actual rational Sox fans out there too. Fans that don't see everything through red glasses and understand that this series is far from over.

While I'd prefer a 2-0 series lead to any other alternative, I know that playing at Coors against a team with an incredible home record is a huge challenge. I have a lot of confidence in Matsuzaka tomorrow night, but playing on the road is a lot different than playing in the friendly confines of Fenway.

Good luck to the Rocks the rest of the way. They are a very talented team with a bright future and a bunch of classy fans.

Go Sox!

by KangsBaseball on Oct 26, 2007 6:04 PM MDT reply actions

But...But...But

Fever Pitch!
And your salary!
You can't POSSIBLY be decent human beings.... I mean.... FEVER PITCH!!!!!!!

by arosenthal on Oct 26, 2007 6:06 PM MDT up reply actions

HA HA HA

You've showed everyone how much of a clever, smug guy you are. Why are you posting on some rockies blog when clearly you should be in comedy clubs? You should have your own Comedy Central special. I was laughing so hard I was crying. Congrats arosenthal. You are such a better person than I am.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions

The worm has turned...

I'm a Rox fan, but only whenever they're playing against the AL or any California team.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 26, 2007 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions

Also...

Since you seem so intent making the thing I said about Fever Pitch a big deal, let me elaborate as I should have the first time around. It is not that the movie sucked, even though it did.

The whole point about the Fever Pitch comment was that Drew Berrymore and Jimmy Fallon celebrated on the field with the players right after the Red Sox won thier first world series in 86 years. I thought this was an orginazation that prides itself on history. Say what you want about the Yankees, but at least they wouldn't let a chick flick be filmed in the middle of a World Series celebration.

You can't tell me there is a sinlge true red sox fan that doen't cringe when they think about this.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 6:47 PM MDT up reply actions

Actually,

The movie was originally filmed with the Sox losing; because after 86 years, that is what most Red Sox fans (i.e. ALL Red Sox fans who were fans before 2004) assumed would happen...again.

In the end, they had to re-film the end of the movie because events surpassed expectation.

by Soxlurker on Oct 28, 2007 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions

Nothing like

having a bunch of Red Sox "fans" in Coors Field last year chanting "ROCKIES SUCK" over and over, to blow any chance of me thinking that the Red Sox fans are the worst in all of sports....The Rockies won that series too by the way..so the fans were too stupid to realize that their team...lost to a team that "sucks"

I hate everyone wearing a "B" hat.

(But I haven't been to Philly for an Eagles game....so I could be wrong)

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 7:03 PM MDT up reply actions

RE: Also...

What does that have to do with the fans?
It's the same logic people use when bashing Rockies fans because of the "God talk."

by arosenthal on Oct 26, 2007 6:51 PM MDT reply actions

Um.....

I didn't say that list was just about Red Sox fans, did I? No? Didn't think so.

I also made a point of saying that Red Sox fans must cringe when they think about it. Just like true Rockies fans cringe when they hear "God Squad".

Why are you such an angry person? What did the people on this website do to you? Why do you have to make everyone hate you? Why don't you understand the diference between being clever pessimist and rude arrogant jerk? I can stand a clever pessimist.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Wow

I come here because Rox Girl and Russ give intelligent analysis that is (generally) spot on.
One of the downsides of any message board are the idiots who post there. I try and ignore it, but a generalized hate toward a fan base for no reason seems too much like a generalized witch hunt.
And, yes, you did say your list was about Red Sox fans.
Red Sox Nation is a loyal fan base. They pack Fenway year in and year out. Sure, some of them are knuckleheads, but there are a lot of Rockies fans who are knuckleheads.
Hating the entire fan base is the same logic that has caused many a war.

by arosenthal on Oct 26, 2007 7:23 PM MDT reply actions

wow thank you

I have seen the errors of my way, O righteous one. How did you become so smart with insane intellectual superiority to my humble self? I didn't realize you could declare people idiots for having a different opinion than you. If I would have known that, I would have just agreed with you. I had no idea you had the power to generalize peoples comments into a few word and then pronounce that it is stupid. O, righteous one, I beg forgiveness. I would have never disagreed with someone of such intelligence. All praise arosenthal.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 7:34 PM MDT up reply actions

While somewhat funny, are you trying

to aggravate the situation?

"Don't give up the ship!" - Capt. James Lawrence

by Russ Oates on Oct 26, 2007 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions

Not too bad...

But no one ever stand ups to this jerk.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions

Evil Empire? I think you guys are stretching...

I'm not gonna insult anyone's intelligence and claim some sort of proxy-support or token love for the Rox if the Indians had taken care of business in the ALCS.

Honestly, I probably would not of watched the World Series and if I did, I would of supported a team like the Indians who fans have suffered for a very long time.

But coming here and reading this "New Evil Empire" opinions being thrown around on this board is just hilarious.

The Red Sox are no where near the Yankees, no one is, well maybe Manchester United. This is why they are hated as much or even more than they are loved.

1st this, Fever Pitch is a Hollywood movie, staring crappy Hollywood actors, converted from a book about English Premier league soccer, by a crappy Hollywood screen writer, and the only people who thought that it was decent are the same crappy Hollywood people in Hollywood. Everyone else hates it.

2nd Dice-K. Anyone watch the game and see all those Japanese business men in the owner's box in game 2? Dice-K was an investment, an $103 million investment to get into one of the biggest baseball markets in the world. Now, Asashi and Sony and a host of other companies want to market their products using the Red Sox Nation. Last year the Red Sox were #23 in popularity in Japan, now we are #1. Want to take a guess on how much money that means to the Red Sox? More than $103 million. This is still a business.

Plus, last night, Hiroki Kuroda, another Japanese releif pitcher with A+ stuff, was at the game on Dice-K's dime watching Matsui and the Okie man play bc he wants to come over and play.

Japan is the new market for talent and after the WBC, the Red Sox where going to make their name the biggest name to every young 30 year old flame thrower who cleared NPB Free Agency and wants to come over and pitch. Dice K was the key to opening Japan to Boston, a city not really known in Japan. After watching Okajima do you think we wasted 1 million dollars?

3rd who outside of Manny and J. D. Drew have the Red Sox "Yankee bought"?

Pedroia? no he was drafted, nobody wanted him.

Youk? nope another one of our prospects.

Big Papi? sorry he was released by Minnesota and we paid him 800k. Then he won us a World Series and we paid him.

Papelbon? nope another draft pick.

Ellsbury? drafted last year.

Coco Crisp? nope traded for the Indians #1 prospect Marte.

Manny Del Carmen? nope drafted Bostonian.

I know Josh Beckett and Lowell? Thats right we gave up Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez, our #1 and #2 prospects. And people said that was stupid. Anyone here willing to trade Tulowitski or Lugo straight up for H. Ramirez? I would, that guy can mash. 1st full year = All Star for the Marlins.

Wakefield? nope sorry he is on a perpetual $4 million a year contract.

Okajima? no sorry, $1million but again nobody wanted him.

Varitek? sorry traded from Seattle and we pay to keep our VETERANS.

Jon Lester? nope drafted and we stuck with him when he fought cancer ( which I am sure you will know plenty about in game four from Fox)

Julio Lugo? Yes, we overpaid for him.

Next year, the Red Sox clear almost $30 million off their payroll and the only "important" person we lose is Schilling and we add some money to Mike Lowell which he deserves, 120 rbi.

So, if you are upset with the games, fine, but you didnt get beat by high priced free agents, you got beat by an organization that found players that nobody wanted, drafted smart, developed talent, retained experienced veterans and added key free agents to fill spots.

The Yankees buy everything and then they hold it up to your face and claim they are brilliant bc they spent $240 million on guys with rings.

Sorry, but I wish you guys would stop finding reasons to hate the Red Sox and maybe take a look at a well run organization.

BTW, whats it gonna cost to keep Tulowitski, Holliday, Jiminez and Corpas?

My rant is over, best of luck in the series though.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 26, 2007 7:34 PM MDT reply actions

Thank you.

For actually making some decent points and not insulting my intellegence. I don't really think you can justify your payroll though. I know that the red sox made some smart moves, moves that can't be made just because of deep pockets, to get where they are right now. But it still won't sway my overall point. I think that salaries are getting out of hand and if it doesn't stop soon, the MLB could have a serious mess on its hands. You figure somethings gotta give eventually, right?

The cubs and mets sure had a hell of a time trying to buy them selves a championship. So I don't think money can always buy a title. It doesn't hurt, but you still need smart front office moves.

I never thought of the Dice-K move like that, so I will concede the point. If that is the case, then the Red Sox were very smart in one way. It kind of explains why they overpaid him and overpaid to talk to him.

Where I draw the line though is the J.D. Drew contract. I don't care if he is all of a sudden a great player to Red Sox fans, that contract is a joke. It is like when a poor kid watches a rich kid buy a 60 dollar video game just because he has money to spend, then he plays the game for five minutes and says it is stupid. Meanwhile the poor kid has to save up 7 bucks to go to blockbuster and rent the game that he has wanted to play for months. Of course the poor kid is gonna hate the rich kid.

Stupid analogy, I know, but I really feel like a poor kid everytime I realize my team might not be able to retain one of its greatest players because certain teams have made all players FA vale go through the roof. At least a good third of teams in the MLB right now are to blame.

Don't have anything interesting to put as a signature.

by jcd823 on Oct 26, 2007 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions

I really think

all of the "Evil Empire" and "New Yankees" stuff is more about how obnoxious (some) Boston fans and (some) Boston players can be. I'm talking about people like Bill Simmons and the trolls that we see here that act like any team not from Boston or New York is somehow inferior. The players I'm talking about are guys like Manny (find some pants that fit and at least try to act like your hustling), Schilling (shut up and pitch), and the bullpen (this isn't girls' softball, guys).
I have all respect for fans like you and the Sox players like Youkilis and Varitek. Anything I've said otherwise was in frustration.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 8:47 PM MDT up reply actions

This came accross like this to me:

"Don't hate me cause I'm rich and pretty"

At least Yankee fans realize they are privileged spoiled bullies. As a generalization, they seem much nicer, er, less obnoxious then most of the Red Sox "fans" I've met because of that. Most Red Sox "fans" act like all of baseball besides the Yankees are too lowely to even be noticed to even get their contempt.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 8:58 PM MDT up reply actions

My point exactly.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 9:05 PM MDT up reply actions

Yeah I saw

yours when I posted mine...great minds.

I guess I was raised different then they are back east. I was taught to be humble in winning, and gracious in losing. The true mark of a winner is to not act like you are the winner, and to not act like you are the loser. We damn sure didn't chant "Rockies Suck" in the Rockies park.

Red Sox fans can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't like it when they gloat and are obnoxious for wining, year in and year out on a tilted playing field set up for the teams that have money (mostly through big TV deals)...(and the Red Sox have the 2nd highest payroll in all of baseball).

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:27 PM MDT up reply actions

Sox

Im am not defending J. D. Drew's or Manny's contracts, to be honest, I did not want Drew and thought we could find someone cheaper who would produce more.

To answer the Red Sox fans thing, listen, I lived in LA for 10 years, ever since law school and I have gone to the Sonny Mc's, the Red Sox bar in Santa Monica, and had supposed Nation members ask me what position Martinez plays, when I am wearing my Pedro shirt out of respect.

But to claim that Red Sox fans are worse than Yankee fans, I think you have 2000 miles to buffer you from the years of torment the old school Nation had to deal with for the better parts of our lives.

I respect the Rockies fans and I am really looking forward to the games at Coors, but you guys need to take a trip back in time to the late 90's early 2000-2003 and remind yourself how annoying Yankee fans truly are.

LOL, Lebron James was born and raised in Akron and the guy is a Yankee fan, thats enough of a reason to hate them.

P.S. on the Dice-K thing. All Matsuzaka games are pumped into Japan and some crazy figure of 10-15 million Japanese baseball fans watch the games.

Think about that Rox fans, tomorrow a whole other nation gets to see Rockies baseball at its best.

Can only be a good thing.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 26, 2007 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions

You really don't see the forset,

cause you are in a tree (or something like that)

Yankees are bad...cause a kid in Ohio liked em...they have band wagoneers all over....Then you tell a story about fake Sox fans in a "Red Sox bar in Santa Monica, CA"? HOW is this any different?

Looks like an Evil Empire...Acts like an Evil Empire...has a payroll like an Evil Empire.....excuse me for mistaking you as an Evil Empire.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions

no offense,

but you really don't know many old school Sox fans.

Most of us are just giddy that the curse BS is finally over with.

Everything else is gravy.

Again, lets see what you Rox fans are saying after your franchise decides to let Jimenez go to the Braves, Holliday to the Mets and Morales to the Phillies.

And if you do hand Holliday 7years/150 million, you will nothing to complain about.

If you want to hate someone, hate Scott Boras.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 26, 2007 9:34 PM MDT up reply actions

We did give out

the largest contract in NL history. Helton got something like $130 million over 10 or 11 years. I think 6 years/$90 million would be good for Holliday.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions

Actually Helton's contract

wasn't the biggest...and still isn't Brown's for LA Dodgers was the biggest at the time.

As for Holliday, Carlos Lee got 4 years at 20 million per year.....Holliday is better then Lee, inflation for players 3 years later.....I guess Holliday will get 5 years at least 20 million each. Though right now I think 25 million per year is a magical ceiling, and I don't think Holliday will get that much.

Now the Rockies payroll is $55 million....even if we raise our payroll to league average of $75 million (that's not the mean..which is close to $68 million) we still couldn't afford Holliday.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions

Not the most per year

but it was the biggest total for the length of the contract, $131 million or so. Zito's is 2nd in that regard at $125 million.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Payroll

Having one of the highest paid players in the league, yet also having a low payroll says something. It says the team can afford to pay players, but chooses not to. For a number of reasons.

In the late 1990's the Rockies payroll was considerably (comparatively) higher. Your team did jump into the free agent foray to acquire players (Hampton comes to mind). It didn't work out.

After this, Rockies ownership made a conscious effort to build from within. Your payroll is low because of this decision, not because you don't have the money to compete.

Name one player the Rockies have lost over the years because they couldn't compete with the "big boys."

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Jason Jennings

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions

I disagree

the Jennings trade was highway robbery. Despite what he's done this month, Taveras hits for average, has good speed and defense and is only 25. Hirsh is only 24 and has potential be very good. Buchholz is a very good long reliever/spot starter. We got all 3 for Jennings, who won 2 games this year.

Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 26, 2007 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions

Completely missed the point

the only reason Jennings was dealt was because the Rockies could not meet Jennings' demands and were priced out by the exploding market for pitchers.

That the Rockies made a haul in the Jennings deal is credit to O'Dowd, but the fact remains that had the Rockies had the budget, they would not have been backed into a deal.

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions

Boston also has a budget

Pedro wanted a 4-year contacts and more money than we were willing to pay.

Same story with Damon.

And Orlando Cabrera.

And heck, if we want to go back further, see one Roger Clemens. Or Carlton Fisk. Or Fred Lynn. Or Wade Boggs.

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 10:42 PM MDT up reply actions

Um

you do know your payroll is the 2nd highest in baseball, almost 3 time the Rockies, almost 2 times the mean average....

AND you paid the entire Rockies team salary for this year....to just TALK to a player?

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:49 PM MDT up reply actions

Incorrect

Boston does not have a budget persay. Instead Boston tends to offer players what they believe they are worth should they be seen as a potential liability. Both Damon and Pedro had age and past injury concerns that gave the Red Sox pause and they did not want to be on the hook for post prime years (as both New Yorks are now). Cabrera's an odd choice considering the Red Sox replaced him with another relatively pricey shortstop in Renteria. Boston didn't operate on a budget, they instead refused to pay asking price for players they no longer considered a part of their plans.

Besides, you didn't ask about the Red Sox budget, you only challenged the Rockies to show you one player they could not afford to keep.

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions

Do you think it's a situation of...

...can't pay, or won't pay. What is Colorado's financial situation anyhow?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 10:44 PM MDT up reply actions

Can't and Won't

are kissing cousins.

The Rockies are operating at about break even after running deep in the red. Ownership had 2 cash calls in less then 2 years, and was about to do a 3rd when they signed current TV deal with FOX Rocky Mountain.

We don't have any where close to Boston Red Sox money...never had, never will. Until there is either a salary cap and/or profit sharing that is.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions

One other point...

Colorado is not in the AL East. The AL East in the 1990's had a 12-headed monster, the New York Yankees. Big, bad and mean. Boston elevated to meet the competition...elevated in wins, talent and yes...payroll.

Imagine if the Dodgers suddenly had a $200 million payroll and won five or six division titles in a row, 3-4 titles, etc, winning 100 games a year. What would the Rockies do, and what would the fans want them to do? Would you rather be a $50 million payroll team (with not much hope of winning more than 92-93 games)...still at least five below the Dodgers...more likely finishing below or at .500? Or would you rejoice when new owners came in, with money and vision to compete?

Now imagine you live in a town where baseball is the biggest sport, the media pressure is massive and fans live and breathe on each pitch (sort of like the Broncos here)?

What was Boston supposed to do? Keep losing and say oh well?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions

If you can't beat 'em

join em right?

But you don't understand how you are now like them after joining them?

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:55 PM MDT up reply actions

If we hadn't joined em...

...we wouldn't be beating them now.

...and the Cardinals would have lost to the Yankees instead of the Sox in the 2004 series.

...and we would not be having this discussion now (you'd be arguing with some guy from the Bronx).

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 11:00 PM MDT up reply actions

Boston never waves a white flag.

What were those yellow flags that Boston fans were waving last night? They looked like leather shams? Or maybe they're used towels? Just curious.

There's only one Rocktober!!

by Charlie77 on Oct 26, 2007 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions

Watched the game pretty intently...

...didn't see those. Got a photo reference?

A white flag is the sign of surrender. Maybe a switch to purple would be more appropriate tomorrow?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 11:06 PM MDT up reply actions

Well if you're team is going to surrender..

Then we'll supply the flags.

The yellow sham/towels were on the first base line last night.

There's only one Rocktober!!

by Charlie77 on Oct 26, 2007 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions

I agree to a degree

so long as baseball operates in this fashion, I don't have a big problem with both Boston and New York running up high payrolls, largely because I don't believe free agency is as impactful as people think it is. I do believe it is the nature of the division and the reality for that baseball region, and yes, the money that is shelled by fans in Boston and by Red Sox fans around the world, that they should flex there financial might when applicable.

That said, I think Boston and New York are seeing that it doesn't have to be a high dollar arms race if you build from within.

Similarly, I have no problem with the Rockies playing with a small budget, because there are several successful models to work with (Oakland, Cleveland/Colorado, Minnesota are now the big three destinct types) and so long as the FO keeps a big picture mindset, the Rockies will stay successful for several years even without Holliday, Atkins, and Hawpe, and in future years Jimenez and Morales as you say.

That said, I do believe the league needs to step in and correct draft spending or it will corrupt the small payroll models and widen the talent gap irreparably.

by David OhNo on Oct 26, 2007 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions

Agreed...

...on all points.

I think the Marlins win in 2003 had an impact on the league. Young, live arms versus veteran tired arms won them the World Series.

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 11:20 PM MDT up reply actions

Wow....that's a misinformed post

The team had 2 cash calls cause it was losing money. We don't have a high salary, cause we can't. (Gee, I could drive a Ferrari...if only I had that kinda money) And our owners don't have deep pockets like say the Angels owner to run in the red.

Also we haven't lost many big name free agents in the last say 5 years or so, as we haven't produced players that would be worth big contracts. But Jason Jennings was the 1st. We fleeced Houston on the way out...but JJ is a player we wouldn't be able to sign.

Smaller named we couldn't re-sign: Darren Oliver after leading team in wins, Vinny Castilla in his last 2 years, Larry Walker in his last 2 years, Jeremy Burnitz, Preston Wilson, Ronnie Belliard, Mark Sweeney all wanted more then we could pay to keep them.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions

HUH?

One day all those Rockies players you named will be gone. (unless we get a new agreement and a salary cap) I don't get you point....are you saying we are poor, and will one day lose our good players to richer teams? And then I'll not like the Rockies...cause they are poor and can't keep high price free agents from leaving?

We kinda know that already. See all the former Oakland A's on other teams? It's the model we are working with. But I won't be falling off the band wagon. (don't this year...wished I did now)

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions

Ignore

that last part in the ( ). Bad editing on my part.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 9:59 PM MDT up reply actions

Where ya from Redhawk?

Not that I care (it's obvious there are some haters here) but your hatred of the Sox seems a bit unnatural for a team the Rockies have played, oh...a dozen times. Might you be a former Yankees fan?

By the way, what series were you talking about? The Sox last played the Rox in 2004 at Coors Field...that was three years ago. Colorado won two, Boston won one. I didn't hear any Rockies suck chants, and I went to all three games. Where were you sitting? Yankees and Rockies sounds similar...maybe you heard it wrong?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions

I live in Parker, CO

a suburb of Denver. Originally from Oklahoma (as most everyone in Colorado is from some where else 1st). I grew up a Cardinals fan, then a Rangers fan as an adult with AAA OKC Redhawks. I guess it was 2004 (gee time flies..and it's been a really long day today). And there were LOTS of "Rockies SUCK" chants that Thursday (or was it Wednesday) afternoon when Boston won. I was on the 3rd base side, lower level...right over 3rd...good seats actually.

Seriously, I've never meet a Boston Red Sox fan that wasn't obnoxious....and usually drunk. I'm not kidding when I say Red Sox fans are the worst fans in all of sports that I've meet. The Red Sox are the big bad bully, and most of your "fans" relish it, and not in "good game" kinda way, but in a you suck cause we beat you, our payroll is almost 3 times as much as yours, and we are going to fk your girl friend now too sorta way. (no I've never lost a GF to a Sox fan either)

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 26, 2007 10:34 PM MDT up reply actions

HOW DID THAT POST CLEAR THE 50

character rule?

by 86 wins in 07 on Oct 26, 2007 7:46 PM MDT reply actions

'94 Nuggets vs '95 Braves

After watching the last two games I keep waffling between complete frustration and giddiness over my baseball team playing in the World Series. Some of my favorite moments growing up was watching the Cubbies with my Grandfather as the Hawk and Ryne Sandberg displayed their talents on WGN. We would sing along with Harry Carey during the 7th inning. My dad was a Cardinals fan and we would have our own in house rivalry when the teams played each other. As a baseball fan growing up in Colorado I understood that we had no shot at a professional baseball team. So in 1992 my dad and I were excited to hear that we could finally root for the same team. This weekend will be the third in a row that I have spent at his home watching the Rocks in the playoffs, and it's an amazing experience.

Watching the World Series this year reminded me of two historical playoff series in Colorado history:

1. 1994- Denver Nuggets vs Seattle Supersonics, The Nuggets were made up of a young team including Mutombo, Mahmoud, Laphonso Ellis that finished the season hot and barely snuck into the playoffs. They faced a veteran Seattle team that was primed and picked by most of the media as not only the Western Finals, but Championship team as well. Seattle won the first two games at home handily, but showed some weakness. Then when the two teams moved to Denver for the next two games in the series the hometown fans helped to wake up a lethargic Nuggets team. Led by a young defensive stud (insert Tulowitzki reference) Mutombo raised the level of play of himself and his team and rattled the cage of the Sonics. Suddenly all the yapping of Gary Payton sounded like yips, and the Reign Man was the recipient of a Mountain block party. By the time the series returned to Seattle the Nuggets had the momentum and closed out with a win.
"My Take"- The Rocks were blown out in the first four innings of game 1. Starting the next inning the bullpen kicked in and the Rocks pitchers have only allowed two runs in the last 13 innings. The team has some confidence, but needs to wake up at home and start hitting. If they can squint real hard and pretend they're playing the Dodgers Colorado could sweep at home and finish strong in Boston.

2. 1995 Braves vs Wild Card Rockies- The Braves dominated the Colorado Rockies in early years and won 10 of 14 games against Colorado that year. We were lucky to take one game in the series and were overmatched by a good team.
"My Take"- The only resemblence the '07 Rockies team has with that first playoff team is a hard hitting left fielder.

There's only one Rocktober!!

by Charlie77 on Oct 26, 2007 10:39 PM MDT reply actions

Look! Optimism!

Was at DU tonight for the Pioneers' 5-1 win over Duluth (yay hockey!) and as has been the norm at the past few Pios games, Denver coach George Gwozdecky got few questions tossed at him about the Rockies from the media.

First, background: Gwoz, while never a baseball fan growing up, has become a fan of the Rockies for two reasons: 1.) The team honored the Pioneers in '04 and in '05 when they won back-to-back national championships in hockey; and 2.) Gwoz and Hurdle go to the same Starbucks.

In any case, Gwoz was asked about the Rockies what he thinks of the series with the Sox.

His response?

"We've got 'em right where we want 'em."

Call me crazy, but I like his confidence ...

by Quiz23 on Oct 26, 2007 10:53 PM MDT reply actions

Scary?

Coming from this guy...

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/denv/sports/m-hockey/auto_headshot/c-gwozdecky.jpg

Did he say it over a Vanilla Chai Mochaciato skinny latte?

Is that you Vince Lombardi?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions

Sorry...

...didn't mean to be obnoxious. I thought it was funny when I saw his picture and that he liked Starbucks. The Rockies do have hope and I think it's true that they have them right where they want them...at home, in Game 3 of the World Series. Nice place to be in late October, in Denver. Who'd a thunk it this time last year?

Boston never waves a white flag.

by galacticpilot on Oct 26, 2007 11:15 PM MDT up reply actions

And the survey says...

Your answer is: any Rockies fan that has been watching this team grow together for the past three years would know they had a chance at the playoffs, and maybe the world series.

What's scary is this team lost it's 1,3,4 pitchers in the rotation and replaced them with rookies. So next year how good is that rotation going to be? I'll tell you;

1.Francis will embrace the ace