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Around SBN: Randy Moss A Raven?

Monday Morning Rockpile: It is done.

A remarkable season and a remarkable run ended rather ignominiously, but at least we got our first pennant out of it. Congratulations 2007 Rockies! The focus now turns to getting back, and hopefully one step farther next season. I think right now in my head, I would prioritize our primary needs this way, but I recognize the team might have them in a different order:

  1. Second Base - re-signing Kaz would probably be preferable, or perhaps targeting his countryman Tad Iguchi if Matsui falls through. Even if Ian Stewart works out, swell, but we need to avoid turning to Jamey Carrol at all costs. I think for the offense next year this is a biggie.
  2. Catcher - I'm hoping Chris Iannetta is ready now, but we need to have a solid plan B in case he's not. Torrealba will get more money than I think he's worth to a team in free agency, but really it wouldn't be that big of a mistake to re-sign him
  3. A starter. I'd love for the team to get a ready number one or two just as much as anybody, and I'd be willing to give up one of our top prospects to get it done so long as we controlled said starter for more than one season. I think the team ends up getting an innings eating number three or four, as well as rolling the dice by re-signing Rodrigo Lopez for a possible late return. This kind of depth will be enormously helpful in getting us back to the postseason, but the lack of a number one if Jimenez or Morales don't step into that role might make for an earlier exit.
  4. Re-tooling the bullpen. This free agent list is underwhelming after a few elite guys that won't work for middle relief, but the team needs to rebuild with a few of our 2007 guys hitting the road.
-----------------

So congratulations to the Red Sox. Your turn from good and lovable loser to loathed and feared mega-team is complete:

Hmm... pardon for the obvious racist exploitation of the original film poster, but the image seemed somehow appropriate anyway. It was our first World Series and we were savaged by a superior opponent, that's pretty much all it boils down to. Let's clean up and move on.

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Virgin Sacrifice?
Please don't tell me this is another bad religious joke waiting to happen.

Good season, guys, let's not forget that.  If the World Series is over, spring training and new life in 2008 are just around the corner.  Let's go Rockies!

The Coors Effect... thinking about changing the name to The Humidor Effect.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 8:06 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks for a great year
After trolling your site for the last year, I want to thank you guys for keeping a positive attitude when things looked bleak.

It was interesting to see how many new names showed up as the team started its run for success.
Me? I wasn't going to jinx the team by posting here, or at fanhome where I normally post amongst all the negativity...

by rockieprogress on Oct 29, 2007 8:15 AM MDT reply actions  

Spot on on some of the needs
I spoke about some of these in a diary in mid Sept and then things spiraled in the postive side.
  1.  I would add CF as another need area.  I do not think Willy is a long term answer as he tends to be overwhelmed offensively and defense (the NLCS catch aside) was suspect.   Sullivan is no answer either.  Spilly is good as a fourth outfielder with 200-300 ABs but does not seem like 500 AB potential or a defensive solution in the large confines.  We have lots of corner OF depth but our CF situation seems a little weak. Lots of possible solutions out there but it is  unlikely the Monforts will pony us $$$.
  2.  This series showed we were overmatched in SP.  We need to rid some excess talent (Sullivan, Baker, Barmes, Koshansky, and even maybe a Morales) for a Scott Kazmir type.
Ths offseason will be intersting as they have some needs but also need to pay some of their own.  It's definately put up or shut up time for the management crew.   The expectation level has changed among fans.   Can they meet those and raise the bar?

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 8:57 AM MDT reply actions  

Some thoughts on your needs
CF-  I think this is the one luxury need we may entertain.  Willy is not the long term answer, but he was a pretty decent fill in for the time being.  Based on WARP, that factors in a players offense with his defense to give you a rough estimate of wins added to the team, Taveras was actually worth almost as much to the team in limited duty as Atkins was all season (3.5 wins to 3.2).  So if the Rockies are to actually improve on Taveras, it will be looking at a limited pool of possible replacements that actually represent improvement.  Possibly, if the Rockies were to handle their needs in the pen and rotation fairly cheaply, they may look to dip into free agency, though outside the big two, the other CFer's have plenty of warts.  Cameron's age and injury history are concerning, and Rowand is just as likely next year to have the more common bad year than replicate the one or two good years he's actually had, and he's not the linedrive hitter that could expect the biggest Coors bump.

The Rockies may sniff around, but I wouldn't expect any big change here.  Taveras is still a solid but unspectacular option, and I'm sure the development guys will push for O'Dowd to give Fowler a full look in AA before making any long term commitments at the position (or for that matter, Nelson as well, who won't stay at short, and may be waiting to see which position between 2nd and CF that will be open.)

SP-  I've long been on this bandwagon, but it shouldn't be at the expense of our elite, near ready prospects.  More specifically, Morales doesn't need to go anywhere.  Franklin is exactly the type of potential pitcher we hope to soon acquire, and he'll make the league minimum for the next three years.  He's not all the way there yet, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if he was pretty close to being that by next year's all-star break.  Maybe if you're talking Bedard I'd relent, but I just don't see it happening with any other available starter and Morales (Kazmir isn't available, but I get where you're going with that one).

Every other name you mention has to be moved this off-season, and here are some ideas:

-Koshansky to Texas for Benoit/Otsuka:  This one is part me and part malakian.  I've pushed for Benoit for a few weeks, and mal has put the appropriate trade return down.  Either Benoit or Otsuka could either take the eighth inning from a departed Fuentes, or share it with him as a right handed option.  Benoit was excellent in high leverage innings this year, and seems to be the type of guy the Rockies could count on to come through in big spots.  

-Barmes to Detroit for Jose Capellan/Yorman Bazardo:  Neither Capellan nor Bazardo are great shakes, but both are power relief "prospects" that could potentially be useful.  Bazardo has a power sinker that could work well as a middle inning damage control guy, and Capellan was actually one of Milwaukee's best relievers a year ago, and the stuff is all there.  The point here is that if you shotgun spray the bullpen with enough power types arms (Morillo, Bautista, Capellan/Bazardo), chances are you'll at least get one to stick.

-Sullivan to Florida for Miguel Olivo:  Sullivan represents some thing of a safety net for the Marlins should they not finally land the starter they would like.  He may not be enough to land Olivo, but let's say there is little market for Miguel, which is likely.  Olivo has proven to be a solid backstop that has the potential to control the running game.  He's not an ideal starting backstop, but he has roughly two years left under team control and carries about the same on field value as Torrealba.  Actually, Olivo has shown considerable pop for a catcher, and Coors could really play to his strengths.  Starting two games a week for Iannetta while always threatening to take a pitcher deep isn't a bad number two catcher.

-Jeff Baker to Washington for Felipe Lopez:  Baker could go any number of places because he has the most potential of this group.  I'd entertain this trade because Lopez has a history of filling in several infield positions while showing better offensive numbers in the past.  Coors Field could revitalize his offense and he would be a better long time fill in option at second than Carroll.  Lopez brings offensive potential, bench speed, and versatility

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 10:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thoughts on your trade proposals:
-Barmes for Capellan /  Bazardo:  From what I've heard, the Tigers may no longer be interested in trading for Barmes.  They're moved Carlos Guillen to 1B and will try to acquire Renteria, Tejada, Jack Wilson or Cesar Izturis to fill the void at SS.  And with similar players in Ramon Santiago and Omar Infante already in reserve, I can't see why they'd pursue Barmes. However, if Detroit is still interested I'd be interested in a number of pitchers they have like Macay McBride, Zach Miner and Eulogio De La Cruz

-Sullivan for Olivo: I'm guessing both players will be non-tendered (definitely Olivo).   Not a fan of Olivo.... he has a lot of holes in his game.

-Baker for FeLo: Lopez is another non-tender candidate.  I can't see why the Rockies would want to pay Lopez $4 million via arbitration when they could re-sign Matsui at the same price (I`m guessing they prefer Matsui to Lopez). I like Lopez though, he's a good rebound candidate for 2008.  If Matsui leaves and Lopez is non-tendered, I'd like to see the Rockies pursue him.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 1:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

On a further note on Yorvit
I have long thought he was a weakness on this club and actually was looking forward to his departure as early as Mid August.  However, he got some key hits down the stretch and his handling of the young pitchers was really strong.  Therefore I am a convert. I think he should stay but he likely will have some interested market suitors.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 8:59 AM MDT reply actions  

Johan Santana
Well Rockies fans, great series, best of luck.

If I might be allowed to give my opinion on your future...

The Rockies #1 priority is to keep Johan Santana away from the Dodgers.  You guys obviously have young talent, but Ubaldo or Francis is not a legitimate #1 starter.  Your team needed someone to shut the Sox hitters down, that is Santana.

You have talent in your system, you have 2 young studs, trade one, either Jimenez or Morales, package them with a couple top prospects and keep Santana away from Chavez.

Johan is perfect for Coors, power arm with 2 fastballs, 2 change ups and a hard slider.

D. Lowe, Schmidt, Billingsly, Penny and Santana is not something you want to deal with.

Best of luck next year.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 9:02 AM MDT reply actions  

Why cap the growth?
Deal Morales and two more A/B prospects for one year of Santana?

Just for some perspective, how would Santana have changed our lot in the World Series?  Would he have held the Red Sox to one run through nine to keep us in game one?  Possibly.  Let's say he does win game one, we're still down 3-1, and still looking at eventual defeat.  When they year would end, we'd lose Santana and have no Morales, Nelson, and Hynick to show for it.

I believe we need a starter, but not at the expense of our elite young, CHEAP guys, and not for a one year rental.

Now if we had a negotiating window and then a mutli-year deal, things would be different.

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 9:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not sure I agree with you... on most points.
Ubaldo may well be a #1 starter.  Is he a legitimate #1 starter right now?  No.  Could he be down the road?  Yes.

Packing Jimenez or Morales with a couple of other prospects for a year of Santana is not a smart idea.  If the Rockies do that, and don't win in 2008, what then?  Surely Santana will be out of the Rockies' price range, unless he blows out his arm.

As for the Dodgers getting him -- well, first of all, a move to get Santana would necessitate trading away some of their young talent (like, say, Billingsley.)  I really don't see how the Dodgers could get Santana without giving him up, and they'd probably still have to throw in a James Loney or someone like that.  And if things were decided on talent alone, the Dodgers would have been the NL West champions this year.  Talent is why the Dodgers were widely picked to win the division; team chemistry (and, to a certain extent, injuries) were why they finished fourth.

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions  

Santana is the best pitcher in MLB...
Well you would have to sign him and up your payroll.

Come on guys, Jimenez was impressive but is he going to be Johan?  A two time Cy Young winner with the kind of stuff like 99' Pedro, heavens no.

Why do you trade your prospects? bc Johan has proven to everyone he is in the top five starters in the MLB for the past ten years.  Look at his stats.

As for this series...pick a game.

Game #1 - you don't give up 13 runs, Santana can go 9 innings like Beckett. Plus he is a lefty which hurts the Sox.

Game #2 - You would most likely win this game with Santana.

Game #3 - You don't give up 6 runs in the 3rd inning.

Game #4 - Well Cook pitched pretty well, but I still think Santana gives up 2 runs at the most.

The deal on the table currently is Dodgers giving up Kemp/Kershaw for Santana.

If you do not get a Santana the Rockies should trade for either Bedard, Haren or Sabathia, and pay them.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

There's our answer!
You've figured it out! To win the World Series, the Rockies would only have had to start Johan Santana four times! It's all so simple! Exclamation points!
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Oct 29, 2007 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Seriously
Are you actually suggesting that if we had had Santana, we could have started him four times in this series?  Unless the Monforts have some secret Johan Santana-cloning device back there, I don't think that's possible.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions  

"pick a game"
His point was to "pick a game" any game, and Santana would've won that game, but only that game.

Cloning devices?

by rockieprogress on Oct 29, 2007 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

Right
Still, though, it's kind of missing the point.  Even with Santana starting, at most, two games in the World Series, that doesn't make the difference between winning and losing the series.

Yes, cloning device.  If the Monforts had something that could make three Johan Santana clones to start Games 2, 3, and 4, it would be possible for Santana to start every game.  Have you seen Multiplicity?  (Just don't make a copy of a copy...)

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

I've got to disagree, here
Still, though, it's kind of missing the point.  Even with Santana starting, at most, two games in the World Series, that doesn't make the difference between winning and losing the series.

If Santana wins game one and game five, there's at least a decent shot that Francis and Jimenez come back to win six and seven. Not to mention the fact that it changes the tone of the entire series from the start, the Red Sox suddenly don't look that superior to the Rockies. At the very least, it definitely brings us a lot closer to the title than we came this year. I would have no qualms having Johan on the team, I just have issues with signing him to a long term contract.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

Also...
Let's get this out in the open, since evidently you're not too familiar with the Monforts.  The Monforts have shown no more willingness to spend money than the owners of any of the franchises currently employing the players you've mentioned.  In addition, there's no prospect package the Rockies can put together to match Kemp/Kershaw (at least, no prospect package I'd be willing to give up.)  We're not just trying to win in 2008; we're trying to build a winner for years to come here.  The fact of the matter is that the Rockies aren't going to pay big money for a starting pitcher after what happened with Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle.  Granted, neither of those pitchers could carry Santana's jockstrap, but it's scared the franchise off of giving big money to starting pitchers over the last few years.

As for the other pitchers you've mentioned: Bedard, while good, is a MAJOR injury risk.  Haren had a good year, but he's really just an above-average starting pitcher and not a true ace.  I doubt the Indians will part with Sabathia, considering they're going to be contending in 2008 and Sabathia is part of that.

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions  

I've said this before,
But I don't think Santana's a guy a team like the Rockies can be proactive about. There's too much long term, career ending injury risk to commit that high a percentage of your payroll to. Teams that can over $100 million in payroll like the Mets, Red Sox, or Yankees can absorb a hit, but as the misguided expenditures by the Rockies on Mike Hampton (not so much Neagle, that was just idiocy) and Darryl Kile showed, the team simply can't afford the risk of not living up to expectations -be it by injury or under-performance- of the highest salaried starters, as failure cripples the team for years.

I'd rather trade for somebody like Snell or Bedard -and I'd be willing to give up a lot more for them- frankly, or sign a second tier free agent. If the team does go after Santana to help for 2008, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I want to center it around replaceable (for the Rockies at least) players that could have a limited future beyond 2008 with the club -like Hawpe or Atkins- than one of our major prospects.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

Exactly!
For all the protests by the Sox fans that their higher payroll didn't mean they bought their way into the Series, you've hit upon the persuasive counterargument:  money may not guarantee success, but it does allow much greater latitude to make mistakes.  When a mid-market team like the Rockies get stuck with a Hampton-esque contract, it can take years to recover.  For the Bostons and New Yorks of the baseball world, the recovery period is considerably shorter.  

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions  

Im confused about something...
Owner aside, do you guys believe Denver would not support the Rockies spending $100 million a year?

The Broncos have almost max cap, the Nuggets spend money to get people.  I see no reason why Denver cannot remain a major player in the NL for as long as it wants.  But the ownership will have to spend around $30 million more to keep up with the Mets, Phillies, Braves, Cards and Dodgers.

My use of Santana is bc he fits into the profile of pitchers who do well in Coors.  A power arm who does not rely on breaking pitches.  He has two deadly fast balls and two insane change ups.

Would Santana win the World Series for you this year? maybe not, but he could get you to a game 6 and 7 like Beckett did for the Sox in the ALCS.

Its gospel in baseball that pitching wins playoffs.  Deal some youth for a little experience, thats all my suggestion was.

by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Denver would support it
But Denver doesn't own the team.  Trust me, if we could bid for Santana, sign him, and not have it screw up the payroll for years to come, we would.

The fact of the matter is that we are not the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, or Mets.  We are a smaller market team, owned by what seems to be penny-pinching owners (we hope they prove us wrong).  We have had to build completely through trades and our farm system.  Now we could possibly trade some talent for a big name pitcher, but Santana's not a legitimate option for the reasons above.  The curse of a small market team is that you cannot only think about this year.  No Kazmir type deals can EVER be made to win now.  

President of the Kazuo Matsui Fan Club

by MattTheRock on Oct 29, 2007 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

All the Reports I've Read
No.  Our TV market just isn't big enough.  And the TV contract is were the real big money is in baseball right now. From what I've read, we are now in the black after being in the red for several years, even having 2 cash calls. A cash call is when the majority owner/GM call all the owners, and make them give cash money, usually to cover immediate bills.  This is part of the agreement of being a part owner. Some teams are able to operate in the red (lose money) and have a deep pocketed owner, give extra money as his play toy.  Not the Rockies...ours is broke.

NFL is different, as they have almost full revenue sharing and a hard salary cap.  NBA also has revenue sharing and a semi-hard cap.  NHL has a very hard cap..and partial revenue sharing (the best for an owner).  MLB has little to no revenue sharing, with only a "luxury tax" on high salary teams..usually paid by only the Yankees and Red Sox.  

I do believe the Rockies could have a payroll at or near league average of $75 million a year.  Or closer to the Median of $71 million a year.  But even those may not be realistic for our cash flow.

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 29, 2007 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Jiminez + Time = Santana
The Rockies have their own future 20 game winning dominator, and it's Ubaldo Jiminez.  I've rarely, if ever, seen a rookie pitcher thrown into such a cauldron of pressure and deliver the way he has.  His stuff is as good as anyones, and no way in hell do I even think about dealing him.   And morales isn't far behind, either.

As for other offseason musings:

  • I've already made the case for Jon Rauch as the 8th inning guy.  
  • Today's paper hinted at possible returns for Chacon and Jennings.  I'm OK with taking a look at either, as long as we're talking incentive-laden deals, not big $$.
  • Frankly, I wouldn't mind an upgrade in RF to a more athletic and consistent player than Hawpe.  Maybe it's Seth Smith, maybe it's a veteran guy. Meantime, Hawpe is very dealable and I'd consider packaging him with Fuentes for a SP.
  • re: CF -- Free agent Aaron Rowand, anyone?

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 9:30 AM MDT reply actions  

Nice points
Maybe not Rauch for 8th inning, as I think Weathers will be ready by mid-season at the latest.

Chacon in the bullpen -- maybe, as a mid-game innings eater, if the price is right.  Jennings in any capacity -- no way.  That train has left the station.

Wholeheartedly agree about Hawpe.  I like the guy, but I think Smith would prove himself the better choice, given the chance.  His strikeout rate this year was 16% (73/451), vs. Brad's 27% (137/516).  Comparable OBP (Hawpe = .387, Smith = .381) and SLG (Hawpe = .539, Smith = .528).  He's also a lefty, like Hawpe, but arguably more athletic.  Don't know about his arm.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

Points
If Weathers is ready, great, use Rauch as your 7th inning guy.  I'm a big fan of having some large, intimidating late inning guys a la Bell or Broxton.  Not saying Rauch is quite of that caliber, but he'll be a heck of more inspiring to see trotting out of the pen than Julio, Affeldt or hawkins. He throws strikes, has a low BA against and has found a real level of consistency. Plus, he'll be relatively cheap and the Nats will be happy to get a good prospect or two in return.

I'm willing take a look at JJ -- he did enough here to earn at least that.  But no multi-year deal and, as I said, load it with incentives.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions  

Rauch in the 7th?
I was ready to agree with you about the intimidation factor, until I remembered how the Sox pummeled Sabathia in the ALCS.  Then again, when Marvin Freeman took the mound for us, once upon a year, he could be pretty scary to behold.

I'm more impressed by Rauch's BAA and his K/BB ratio.  And, as you say, he's relatively cheap, and the Nats need help in a lot of areas.

I will say this, I always liked JJ's makeup.  It's one thing to play fantasy baseball with all these prospective trades, but clubhouse chemistry and individual makeup count for a lot.  Just ask Grady Little.  You just have to wonder how much his horrid season this year has affected him.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

rauch
i didn't imply we should go out and get big guys for the sake of getting big guys.  rauch is a big guy who's also very good.  The intimidation stuff is just a nice bonus.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don't see us trading for Rauch
He's going to be way too expensive in my opinion.  I'm guessing Jim Bowden will again have unrealistic expectations of Rauch's value and ask for the moon out of any team who inquires.  Be prepared to surrender some quality prospects if you want Rauch.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

You're probably right
Sadly, I suspect you're right about Jim Bowden.  I've been in D.C. since the Nats came to town.  IMHO, their GM has too often taken extreme positions on trades, to the team's detriment.  A shame, really.  The new stadium's coming along nicely (1/2 mile from my office - yay!), and will be a beautiful venue when it's done.   I just hope they have a quality product to put on the field.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 7:18 PM MDT up reply actions  

You like the Nats?
They're my second team too. I was intown when they moved from Montreal as well... any game played at RFK is a good time. :-P
Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies - 2008 NL West Champion and 2008 NL Wildcard, in some order.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 29, 2007 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Congrats, Rockies!
You turned this girl into a rabid fan like she is about hockey. Yes, I always did root for you guys, but never with the passion I had for that sport on ice.

Now?

Totally different story. I hate to admit it, but I cried after last night's loss. I've only cried after painful losses (and not ones I played in - different story) I've watched two other times:

  1. 1998 when the Avs got knocked out of the first round by Edmonton (my first year of being a crazed hockey fan)
  2. When BU got destroyed by BC in the NCAA Regionals two years ago, when there was just a feeling about the team that hadn't been there before.
So, thank you Rockies. Thank you for enveloping this fan further into the fold (and craziness) and thank you for giving Colorado baseball fans something to believe in.

Here's looking to next year ...

by Quiz23 on Oct 29, 2007 9:55 AM MDT reply actions  

Bro
I like points 3 and 4.  I know Hawpe has some serious holes in his swing and is challlenged.  But compare his production and price to JD Drew and you appreciate him more.

I have advocated Rowand many times.  I think he is a better hitting, better character Jim Edmunds guy.  He would excel here.  His cost would be $9-11M per year though.

I think Jennings is done and much like Neffi Perez will long remember the day he declined the Rox offer.

As for the 8th inning, I am not a "your job" is inning X kind of  guy but would prefer anything over Fuentes at this juncture.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:01 AM MDT reply actions  

I agree in regards to Rowand
I think Taveras is a decent placeholder, but with an upgrade available like that, I think you've got to give it a shot. Counting on Fowler to live to his potential is presumptuous, and if he does, you just trade Aaron, not that hard.

I don't think our bullpen situation is that bad. Everybody has holes there every year, and we've got a few relievers who should be able to step up and into more prominent roles in 2008 and O'Dowd's excelled at finding arms that give quality production at little cost.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 10:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

Yes and no
I agree the priorities should be a top of the rotation starter, a solid 2B, a catcher, and a few new bullpen faces.  I'd also add CF to that wish list, as PHLP suggests.

For starting pitching, I think we should be looking for a guy with a good K/9 rate.  Internally, Hirsch deserves a shot in the rotation next year.  In the FA market, Kazmir seems like a good choice, and MUCH more affordable than Santana.  If he can control his BB/9 rate and stay injury-free, he's probably good for 16-18 wins.  That's especially true playing in front of our defense, rather than Tampa Bay's.

At 2B, it's critical we re-sign Matsui, preferrably for another 2 years.  He brings speed to the top of the lineup, and with Taveras gone (as I hope he is), Matsui becomes even more indispensible.  Also, I'd be surprised if the Stewart experiment succeeds.  After him, who's left?  Nix?  Wimberley?  EY Jr.?  I don't see any of those guys as an upgrade or even a lateral move, at least not in 2008.

As for catcher, Torrealba's not worth the money he'll get in FA.  The problem is, who else is out there?  Maybe the bigger problem is, what will it take for Clint to give Iannetta a legitimate chance?  He sure hasn't shown a lot of confidence in Chris so far.

For the bullpen, I'd love to see Casey Weathers break camp with the big club.  Granted, he's only got a year in the system, but he also happens to be 22, a year older than Franklin and a year younger than Ubaldo.  I understand the Rocks like to wean their players along, but I think he's going to be ready in April for 8th inning duty.

CF - I'll admit, Ellsbury was fun to watch.  Good luck prying a AAA prospect of his caliber from another club, but as has been pointed out, we have some prospects ourselves to use as bargaining chips.  I'd rather go that way than spend monster dollars on Torii Hunter or (god forbid) Aundrew Jones.

O'Dowd has developed a good model for long-term success.  I'd rather stick with the model than throw huge wads of money into a very few monster contracts.  Heck, take the cash you save and throw it into signing bonuses for some future top prospects.  But, that's another issue altogether.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 10:07 AM MDT reply actions  

More trade bait
Ian Stewart.  A Rockies scout told me the organization has soured on him and look for him to moved.

His marginal year at AAA (many lesser rated prospects have fared much better) and his horrible at bats have made him expendable.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:34 AM MDT reply actions  

Stew
He was most certainly exposed at the big league level, but I'm not ready to write him off that easily.

I'm willing to give him a winter to make some adjustments and see what happens.  Hopefully, he'll play winter ball (anyone know if he is?) and will get his confidence back.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

No more
Tim Harrikala
Mark Redman
Elmer Dessens

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:38 AM MDT reply actions  

Yes, yes, and yes.
And thank God for that.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Redman
I'll give Redman a little love.  He gave us a couple of quality starts when we really needed them.

I'd bring him in as a nonroster invitee and give him a shot at earning a BP job in the spring.  

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions  

Redman
I like as a 6th starter/long reliever swing man. Or Elmer Dessens in that role.  No neither of them are Brad Penny...but as a non-roster invite, I think they would be better then most teams would have.
I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 29, 2007 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

On the issue of starting pitching
While the World Series exposed our starting pitchers, let's not forget that injuries had a LOT to do with that.  Over the last two months of the season, we were basically going with two-fifths of our Opening Day rotation, with Hirsh, Lopez, and Cook all on the shelf.  Morales got pushed into the rotation when he pretty clearly wasn't ready out of necessity, and let's not forget that if the Philadelphia series had gone to four games, Mark Redman (shudder) was set to start Game 4.  The starting pitching isn't nearly the glaring weakness as it seemed this weekend.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:47 AM MDT reply actions  

That's also precisely why we need more
Injuries to pitchers happen, and you can't count on the five guys you start the season with being the five you finish it with. I'd rather have a situation like the Sox where they have too much rather than a situation like ours where we end up not having enough.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions  

Of course
a lot of teams, about 29, that would like to be in the Red Sox situation right now.
Is it spring yet?

by Volorado on Oct 29, 2007 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

But we don't need to spend money
or trade away the farm if we're just looking for fill-ins.  Fill-ins are just that.  It will be better next year, when some more of our pitching prospects (Hynick, Reynolds if healthy) will be closer to MLB-ready and available to fill in if somebody does get hurt.  And don't underestimate the waiver wire; while Redman is not a long-term solution and certainly not a guy I want starting a playoff game, he wasn't all that bad when called on, though I can't really say the same for Harikkala or Dessens.

Losing pitchers for short stretches is part of the game, but losing three starters for the last two months of the season is bad luck that probably won't happen two years in a row.  Also consider that at least one injury (Hirsh) was a freak injury that was non-pitching-related.

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

I understand
the disdain for Hawpe right now, but how are you going to replace a guy who is going to hit 25 HR and 100 RBI for at least the next 4-5 years?  If we sign Rowand, you can plug him in at the 6 hole where he batted in Philly and bump Brad down to 7th.  Or you can plug Rowand in at 7 and give a little more protection for Hawpe at 6.

Smith was clutch off the bench for us and is no doubt more athletic than Hawpe, but he didn't really square up many pitches besides the triple against SD.  He had the cue shot against philly, and the bloop double against AZ.  If those don't go for hits, we're not even discussing this right now.  

Rockies lineup next year (Hopefully):

Kaz
Tulo
Matty
Todd
Atkins
Hawpe
Rowand
Iannetta

Lethal!

PS- As much as adding Rowand would be great for the lineup, we first need to lockup Holliday, we cannot afford to let potentailly the greatest Rockie ever walk after next season.

Is it spring yet?

by Volorado on Oct 29, 2007 10:51 AM MDT reply actions  

the rotation next year looks pretty good too
Francis
Cook
Baldo
Hirsh
Fogg or other generic starter while Morales gets a little more AAA seasoning?

Sounds pretty good to me.

by ch3cooh on Oct 29, 2007 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Disregard
Okay, stupid me.  "Baldo" as in "Ubaldo."  Duhhh.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

he went with
"Baldo"

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions  

I agree about Hawpe
I think we need to keep him for 2008, unless -and the same goes for Atkins- we get a package we just can't refuse in return. It would have to be a Bedard or better quality of starter before I would consider moving them if I was the team.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions  

Hawpe
"I understand the disdain for Hawpe right now, but how are you going to replace a guy who is going to hit 25 HR and 100 RBI for at least the next 4-5 years?"

My feeling isn't based on the postseason, it's from watching him for a couple of years and consistently thinking "he's just not the player he really should be."  Kind of a gut thing -- he just underwhelms me, regardless of his numbers.

As for replacing those numbers, power hitting, run producing corner OF'ers aren't that rare a commodity.  The bigs are filled with the likes of Michael Cuddyer, Curtis Granderson, Corey Hart kind of guys.  Not saying those guys in particular are better than Hawpe, just that it's way easier to replace what Hawpe gives you than it would be to replace, say, Tulo.

This isn't really that big a thing for me.  If Hawpe's there in 2008, I can live with that.  Just see it as a position for a possible upgrade.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

AND
in any move the Rockies make money is a factor, and Hawpe could get good arbitration money.  Also because of those number I think he will be in good demand on the trade market.

I think Hawpe is expendable as well.  I've said this spring...he may be the most overrated player on the team (by most of the posters here).  At the end of the year his number are good.  He even won some big games for us this year....but there is something I just don't like

I'm Manny Ramirez's Barber

by Redhawk on Oct 29, 2007 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Girardi offered Yanks job
He'll be a great choice -- until he and Steibrenner get into it, which should be about he second week of spring training.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:05 AM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, but
at least Steinbrenner understands the importance of winning and won't fire a manager over a silly disagreement.

Wait, this is the same guy who fired Billy Martin six times, right?  What am I saying?

http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

They're all drama junkies over there
Don't get me wrong -- from a  baseball standpoint, Girardi is certainly the right guy.  But everyone knows this will blow up at some point.

Just watch -- sometime around May, when the Yanks lose a few in a row, Steinbrenner will pop off the to press about lack of effort and Girardi will, unlike Torre, answer back in kind.  And then it's war.

But that's part of the show when it's the Yankees.  It's all about keeping them on the back page of the Post and the Daily News and keeping the Mets off it.  

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions  

If the 2006 NL MOTY
ends up with the Yankees, rather than the Dodgers, that's a good thing.
Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies - 2008 NL West Champion and 2008 NL Wildcard, in some order.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 29, 2007 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rowand?
I'm in agreement with most of the sentiment expressed here, except for one area- CF.  For starters, keeping Willy is far from a bad option. As long as he doesn't get bogged down by injuries again, he's a fantastic cheap option who covers ground like few others in the game can.  He had a pretty bad April, and was hurt for most of August and September, but I think people really forget how great he was from May until July.  He was an absolute force at the top of the lineup.  Of course he doesn't have gap power, and he needs to walk more.  But for the price, he's a fantastic option that should definitely not be written off.

And as for free agent options, why oh why is everyone all hot and bothered about Rowand?  He just had a career year at age 29.  He'll probably command at least a 4 year deal.  Hmmmm... I wonder what trajectory we can expect his production to take in next few years?  His contract would be a complete albatross by 2010.  Johnny Damon, anyone?  I don't like the idea of spending 10 million a year on a guy like that.  Use it on pitching, or to try and resign Atkins or Holliday.  

If management has soured on Taveras and absolutely feels the need to dip into the FA market for CF, why not go after Andruw Jones for a 1 year deal as he re-auditions for the big deal he thought he'd be signing this offseason?  I hear that's probably what he's going to do.  This is a guy who was almost an MVP in 2005 and had a great 2006.  He didn't just suddenly forget how to hit this past year.  I think he'll bounce back strong in 2008 and Coors would be a fantastic place for him to do so.  Of course, the problem is that should he return to for after this 1 year deal I'm proposing, he would be out of the Rockies' price range and they'd be right back where they are now.  But I'd rather rent him for a year than commit a bunch of money over the course of 4 or 5 years to Rowand.  MUCH rather.  

rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 11:45 AM MDT reply actions  

Willy
Here's what has me nervous about Willy -- the BoSox played Lowell way in and took away the bunt as a weapon.  Without that, Tavares showed a complete inability to get on base.  Plus, he doesn't pull the ball, so he can't take advantage of the drawn in 3B.

Now, hopefully, his inability to get non-infield hits was a result of rust and injury.  But what if it wasn't?  

Obviously, everyone will take the cue from Boston and play their 3B 45 feet away next season.  If Tavares can't adjust, we're screwed.

I'm fine with brining him back, but there had better be a plan B.  And I'm not certain that's Spilly.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Not all third basemen are Mike Lowell
besides, that isn't anything new.  I don't think Boston had a sudden revelation to play the third baseman in on Taveras.  He's had defenses cheating in on him all season, he was just better at getting bunts down before his long layoff.  That he continued to foul off bunts after returning more than likely shook his confidence more than any new defense teams used against him.

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'll do you one better
I'm 100% certain that it's NOT Spilly.  He was awful from about August 1st onward.  Pitchers just started going away, away, away early in the count and that's a huge problem for him.  I'm fine with going after somebody as a plan B, but all I'm saying is let's NOT make it Rowand.  If you want to see further reasoning on that subject, go over to thegoodphight.com and check out their discussions from shortly after the Rox eliminated them.  Even the fans of the team he just had an amazing, memorable yeawr for don't want him back at the price he's going to command.

As for Willy, teams were trying to take away the bunt all year.  The Red Sox didn't do anything other teams haven't been doing since he came into the league in 2005.  His poor performance in the series was mirrored by everyone on the team, save Holliday.  That's a small sample size against great pitching after coming off an injury.  I wouldn't put too much stock into it.  Look at his splits from April (not as bad as I had originally thought, in terms of OBP) through July this year.  He was a more than adequate leadoff guy.

rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bunt defense
opposing 3B played in on the grass all year, but I never saw any team send their guy in as much as the Red Sox did.

Now, a couple line drives whistling down the third base line would effectively pre-empt such defenses, but Tavares seems incapable or unwilling to adjust his swing and provide those.

Truthfully, if he could consistently pull the ball, he could hit .350 or .360 by simply taking whatever the oppsition is giving him -- bunt or line drive base hit.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've been looking at my own
favorable opinion of Rowand and reassessing not whether he's going to be worth his FA contract, most aren't, but how many more wins than Taveras he will provide. I still think it's worth a shot, but because it's such a toss-up as to how much a shot it's worth is why I didn't put it as a top priority in the main article.

Rowand is a couple of years younger than Damon was when he signed that albatross contract with the Yankees, and even with that, it wasn't until this season that Damon was slightly below league average as a hitter. What I don't like about Aaron is that his style of play makes the injury risk a big factor to consider, but I think he's the only center fielder hitting the market that will be able to perform close to the level his contract will dictate.

I think it's more a luxury that we should go after if we're sure we can meet those other more pressing needs.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'll hop aboard
the "No Rowand Train."

Beyond the free agency bump that is a statistically supported phenomenon, Rowand isn't significantly much different than Ryan Spilborghs.  

For starters, Rowand can't hit hard stuff.  He gears up for the fastball which causes him to flail miserably at breaking stuff away.  Why does that matter much?  He's getting to the 30 year range where his lack of bat speed could become an even bigger concern.  

While he plays a very good centerfield, speed isn't one of his tools out there, so his range will decline much quicker as he leaves his 20's.  Besides, of the defensive tools, speed is the single most important one in Coors' centerfield.

Rowand's right for some but not this team.  I don't think he's ever going to be as good again as he was this year.

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree completely.
Aging? Check
Injury prone? Check
Coming off a career year? Check

Also, Rowand will probably be classified as a type-A free agent this winter.  That means the Rockies must surrender their first round pick in order to sign him.  He's not worth it.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah
I had forgotten about the draft pick, too... talk about a enormous investment.  Meanwhile we already control a guy making less than 5% as much who's capable of OBPing .360 and playing plus defense.  
rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

of course, our first round pick
Isn't nearly as valuable this season as it has been in our recent past. I did forget about the playing for $$ angle, that seems like a legit concern.

Here's my counterpoint to all these points though. Incremental improvements become a lot more valuable for a ninety win team trying to get to ninety-five wins than they do for a seventy win team trying to get to seventy-five. Given how weak the free agent pool is at second base and catcher, I think this is the one area on offense where we can add something from outside without too much of a dropoff in defense.

PECOTA pegged Rowand to be a 3.6 win player in 2008 before his breakout year in 2007 which should bump up the next projection to well over four wins. Taveras meanwhile, underperformed relative to his projections at a 3.2 WARP this year, and there is no way his 2008 projection of 5.0 wins stays that high. My point of this is that even with a regression, Rowand should add more offensive value to the squad in 2008 than Taveras would. While I highly doubt that the 7.7 win Rowand of 2007 is for real, I feel that it's closer to what we can expect from him going forward than the 2.6 win player he was in an injury plagued 2006.

What's more, I think Willy T's speed clouds over Clint Hurdle's mind into thinking he's more valuable at the plate than he really is. Comparing everyday lineups:

1 Taveras
2 Matsui
3 Holliday
4 Helton
5 Atkins
6 Hawpe
7 Tulo
8 Iannetta

to

1 Matsui
2 Rowand/Tulo (switch them according to stuff, Rowand for finesse, Tulo for flamethrowers)
3 Holliday
4 Helton
5 Atkins
6 Hawpe
7 Tulo/Rowand
8 Iannetta

to me makes it clear that Aaron's skills could provide more value to the team than Willy's do, as Taveras and Kaz become a sort of low OBP but dangerously speedy redundancy at the top of the lineup.

I just don't think it's that bad a move defensively, and actually could be very large boost to the offense.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

If we upgrade in CF
We should do so via trade and stay away from these soon-to-be-overpaid centerfielders.  A team with a  limited budget should not spend so frivolously.  We have a great offense, we have a great defense, we do not have a great pitching staff (yet).  Any extra cash should go towards improving the pitching and re-signing "the core".

To me, the negatives of signing Rowand outweigh the positives.
-Rowand will likely get a 5 year / 50 million dollar contract.... The Braves, White Sox, Padres, Nationals, Rangers and Giants will likely be interested creating a bidding war for his services.
-Due to his crash-and-bang style of play, Rowand is always battling injuries.  Is he really worth $10 million a year when he`s seemingly on the DL half the time?  A career ending injury such as a concussion is always a possibility as well.
-Leaving Citizen Bank Park, his offense is likely to decline in 2008 and beyond.  By 2010 he could be a liability both offensively and defensively. Keep in mind that Rowand had a sub .750 OPS in both 2005 and 2006, was his 2007 season a fluke?
-Giving a 4 or 5 year contract to an inconsistent 30 year old is always risky.
-No draft pick.  As a fan of development and the farm system I am opposed to this.  We could end up finding a gem in the lower part of the first round.   Have we suddenly become the San Francisco Giants?

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 2:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

All good points
This, plus other posts and my going over it in my head all day has made me go from being pro-Rowand to pro-Taveras.  Willy is younger, cheaper, and faster than Rowand, and is, hopefully, less injury prone.  Plus we don't lose a pick, something Colorado has made great use of lately.  

Add in the fact that we could use more pitching and need $$$ to retain guys like Holliday, then yes, keep Willy, let other teams overpay for ARow.  There is not a defensive void with Willy, he just needs to learn to spray line drives all over the place, much like a guy we just saw all too much, Jacoby Ellsbury.

Is it spring yet?

by Volorado on Oct 29, 2007 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

tori hunter
would fit right in and he would fix all center field concerns plus he is a great guy fit in well in the clubhouse
BECKETT ISNT ELWAY

by roxfan4life on Oct 29, 2007 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

plus he's going to get
as high a salary as any position player this winter. If the reason for not pulling the trigger on Rowand is because he's too expensive, then you can forget about Hunter.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I for one
feel exactly the same about Hunter as I do about Rowand.  Too old, injury concerns, too big of an investment.  Like I already said, the only "big name" free agent CF the team should even consider is Andruw Jones on a one or two year deal.
rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

Add to that
coming off a (near) career year, and only likely to decline, especially 2 or 3 years down the road.
rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

A funny angle on A-Rod
Lost in all the fuss about him opting out is that the Rangers just saved a ton of money.  I bet they're thrilled.  If the same thing happened to the Rockies, we'd be crapping ourselves with excitement over here.  Of course, this somewhat interesting aspect of the drama will be completely ignored by the media.
rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Oct 29, 2007 11:57 AM MDT reply actions  

Yep
$21.3 million to be exact.  

Why, oh why, couldn't Hampton have opted out of his deal?  :)

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions  

Because
Hampton realized that he completely sucked?
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

On A Rod
I find it very interesting how this will play out as the Sox and Yanks don't seem to fit into the equation.  The Mets have a good young 3rd baseman, the Cubs have ownership issues,  and unless the Giants are totally stupid they don't fit as well.  It may well be the Angels bidding against themselves.  Personally I would like to see this decision backfire and he be subjected to a substantial pay cut.

Shame on Scott Boras for upstaging the WS.  The A Rod money grab takes the headlines on the biggest stage.  How many WS games has A Rod played in?

We now have 25 guys (whoops 24 since Ianetta DNP) who have more WS experience than he does.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:26 PM MDT reply actions  

His original position...
...was at short, remember? As much as you think of him as a 3B, also consider him replacing guys like Theriot in Chicago, Vizquel in SF, or Uribe of the ChiSox.
Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies - 2008 NL West Champion and 2008 NL Wildcard, in some order.

by DbacksSkins on Oct 29, 2007 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah but
he would have to lose some weight and change some conditioning to go back to short.  His body is no longer SS ready. I read somewhere during the season that he would like to continue at third for the foreseeable future.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Giants
Never underestimate Sabean's ability to be stupid.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rockies: The best thing to happen to baseball since 1993.

by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Filling the voids
Just throwing out some names at each potential vacancy:

Catcher:
Free Agents: Lo Duca, Ausmus, Michael Barrett, Jason Kendall, Damian Miller
(note: I suppose you could add Ramon Castro and Rod Barajas to this list, but both have character/attitude issues which will probably scare off management)
Via trade: Gerald Laird, Ronny Paulino, Javier Valentin

2B:
Free Agents: Iguchi, Mark Loretta, Luis Castillo
Via trade: Josh Barfield, Felipe Lopez, Chris Burke

Starting Pitching:
Free Agents: Randy Wolf, Kip Wells, Brett Tomko, Jon Lieber, Kris Benson, Matt Clement, Jason Jennings?, Carlos Silva (he'll probably be too expensive)
Via trade: Jon Garland, Nate Robertson, Dave Bush, Chris Capuano, Paul Byrd, Dontrelle Willis, Chad Gaudin, Jose Contreras

Set-up:
Free Agents: Troy Percival, Octavio Dotel, Doug Brocail, Keith Foulke, David Riske, Rudy Seanez, Luis Vizcaino, Julian Tavarez
Via trade: Akinori Otsuka, Joaquin Benoit, Jon Rauch, Luis Ayala, Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Rincon, Jason Frasor,  Chad Qualls, Mike MacDougal, Al Reyes, Salomon Torres, Derrick Turnbow, Dan Wheeler, Matt Wise

LOOGY:
Free Agents: Ron Mahay, Trever Miller, J.C. Romero, Ron Villone, Hitoki Iwase?
Trade: Will Ohman, Jimmy Gobble, Alan Embree, Scott Eyre, John Grabow

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 1:54 PM MDT reply actions  

Ugghhh
not a great deal of pillow hunching names on that list.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well
I could have listed some exciting names like Bedard, Santana, Sabathia and Posada, but I don't think we have a realistic shot at acquiring any of those guys.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I just wanted to use
the term "pillow hunching".  It casts vivid image.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

If anyone wants to see video
of Iwase pitch, just do a search for him on YouTube.
"Don't give up the ship!" - Capt. James Lawrence

by Russ Oates on Oct 29, 2007 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

That's
a pretty thin list of starting pitchers. Not sure who on that list (apart from Garland and maybe Wolf) is an improvement over Fogg.  Even the younger guys like Gaudin don't do much for me.

If Willis comes cheap, he's an obvious candidate for change of scenery improvement. But enough teams will think that to end up driving his price up.

Yet more reasons to at least take a gander at JJ and Chacon.

As for other positions, Felipe Lopez is a little bit interesting if Matsui is priced too high.

I like Riske as a possible set up guy.

I like Jimmy Gobble only because it would be cool to have a guy named Jimmy Gobble.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

Chacon ain't coming back
One, so long as Apodaca is the pitching coach I can't see why he or Chacon would consider rekindling that relationship.

Two, he can't help but take shots at the team, either immediately following the trade or his statement this year about how he learned how not to do things.

Three, he just isn't very good.  Be careful when placing too much emphasis on the most recent season, and that goes for any player (save for guys in their early twenties).  Besides, his peripherals suggest an ERA in the mid 4's, not sub 4, and we have plenty of guys that can put up a 4.5 ERA in middle relief.

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Chacon
I'm utterly neither here nor there about the guy.  But if you can get him to come in on a minor league deal or as a nonroster invitee, then sure, have a look-see.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Stay with Ianetta?
Interesting, Chris Ianetta is #4 on Chuck Dieringer's 2007 Top 10 Catcher Prospects list for the Baseball Examiner (http://www.baseballexaminer.com/PositionalTop10s/2007catchers.htm), and his numbers are vastly better than the other nine.  Of course, that doesn't include this year.  Still, after looking at what's out there in free agency/trade, I'm more convinced than ever that Clint needs to give Ianetta a bona fide chance next year, meaning at least 3-4 starts a week.  The alternatives just aren't all that appealing.

by hobgoblin on Oct 29, 2007 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nice
the local sports radio is trashing the Rocks all day.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:05 PM MDT reply actions  

Nice
the same group that didn't pay attention to baseball until September is now dissapointed with a loss to the best team in baseball in the WORLD FREAKING SERIES!    
Is it spring yet?

by Volorado on Oct 29, 2007 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

No, but I think I'll have to buy that post season
package so I can watch single A players play in Hawaii and Arizona and Puerto Rico etc.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

What about
Speier in the 8th? He was good in some tough situations late in the season.
Every day is a Holliday!

by free7694 on Oct 29, 2007 2:39 PM MDT reply actions  

He's part of the mix for sure
In fact, he seems better suited for late and close than middle work.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

ive always said
we should go after santana. why not he is the best pitcher this decade. it could win us a world series.

speier in the 8th is good. our pen should be

closer-corpas
middle- bucky

let the spring decide the rest but sign anyone that can throw well.

hawk
herges
newman
speier
affeldt
anybody else

BECKETT ISNT ELWAY

by roxfan4life on Oct 29, 2007 2:55 PM MDT reply actions  

Red Sox Troll
I've been lurking around during the post-season. I just wanted to say congratulations on a great season. Most of the posters here seemed really classy and friendly. I have to confess that I had not watched any Rockies games until the post-season (heck, I have a hard time seeing ANY baseball games in my time zone), but they were certainly impressive.

I think a Red Sox poster a few threads ago mentioned the sheer statistical difficulty of continuing to win after going on a 21/22 tear, and I think that's true. In the ALCS, after the Indians won 3 games in a row, I kind of think that the Sox ended up winning in large part due to the whole "toin coss" nature of baseball. In a sport where SO many games are played, it is almost a given that teams will run hot and cold. (Sox '07 season showed this at several points.)

I am far from a baseball expert - I only became a fan after I started attending college in Mass about 10 years ago. However, I think the Rockies looked really good in those last 2 games, and I hope to visit Coors Field someday.

by 808BostonSportsFan on Oct 29, 2007 3:18 PM MDT reply actions  

Sox fan
You're welcome to come to Coors anytime.  The middle of next October may be just the time to do it.  :)

As i reflect upon it, I think the 21 out of 22 thing is probably what caused the Rox to come up empty in the WS.  It's like, in basketball, when one teams storms from 25 points down to make a game of it in the final minutes, but is so wiped out from the effort that they can't finish.

The Rox played with their backs agains the wall for so long that I really do think it just drained them.  Hopefully, next year they'll get off to a good start and not have to kill themselves down the stretch.

by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

A repeat in '08 - wouldn't that be something?
The rhyming beauty of Rox vs. Sox, imho, is way cooler than "Cleveland Rox" (sorry, Tribe fans). Coors is a very beautiful park. I love the bits of foliage in the bullpen; what a contrast from dirty old Fenway (which I love). Watching the games, I was also really jealous of the fans who had put those pretty purple Rockies on batting helmets. Wow, how obvious is it that I'm a girl? :)

Yes, I think the Rox were probably just a bit tired. I don't really think the "inexperience" angle was as big as the media made it out to be; obviously, they had some experience from steamrolling through the NLCS. The last 2 games were extremely close, so they were not greantly outplayed. One thing the Red Sox had the edge on was patience at the plate, and I am certain that the Rox will show more of that next year. Certainly, with the exception of the Nation/"Empire," the whole country was rooting for the Rox, and I think they have gained many new fans, bandwagon or otherwise.

by 808BostonSportsFan on Oct 29, 2007 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

Matsui
Why is everyone under the impression that Matsui will be difficult to sign?  There really isn't too much of a market for him around the majors.

Also, consider that some teams will be scared off by his huge home/road splits.

Possible destinations for Matsui:
-Chicago White Sox (could go with Richar)
-Minnesota (could go with Punto or Casilla)
-San Diego (could go with Antonelli--- rumored to be interested in Iguchi)
-Houston (could go with Burke, Loretta or Wigginton)

Other than maybe Minnesota or Chicago, I doubt any of those teams would be seriously interested in him.  
That's it.  So unless Matsui wants to return to Japan, he shouldn't have too many other options open.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 3:49 PM MDT reply actions  

White Sox...
My guess is they go with Richar.  I think they'll sign a utility man behind him, but I think the plan is to go with Richar.

Then again, it is Kenny Williams, so who freaking knows?

President of the Kazuo Matsui Fan Club

by MattTheRock on Oct 29, 2007 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

who said he'd be difficult to re-sign?
I don't think that's the case, but it's an important piece of the offseason pie nonetheless. I think people are looking to alternatives just in case something out of the blue happens, but I haven't gotten the feeling that most users here are in doubt he'll be back.

At least I hope not, if they are, then I definitely hope they read your post. This is a situation where the two sides are so perfectly made for each other that it's hard to imagine a deal not happening.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

A few fans, but mostly the Denver Post
It seems to be the opinion of Renck and Saunders.

Renck believes the Rockies won't be able to afford him without shedding salary elsewhere.

Matsui, Jeremy Affeldt and Josh Fogg increased their value this year, meaning it's likely they will price themselves out of the Rockies' budget next year. -10/28

and this:

I'd say it's 50-50 Matsui returns. He likes Denver, likes his teammates. But there's no way he would come back for less than what Carroll is making next season ($2.1 million). The obvious answer would be to trade Carroll - they might have to eat money to do it - and give that cash to Matsui. -10/21

From Patrick Saunders:

Matsui becomes a free agent after the World Series. Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said Colorado will make a strong play to keep him in a Rockies uniform, but they'll have to free up money. That could mean finding a suitor for utility infielder Jamey Carroll and his $2.1 million salary. - 10/10

I imagine Carroll will be difficult to dump.  But re-signing Matsui shouldn't have anything to do with dumping Carroll's salary on anyone.  There should be enough room on the payroll for both of them.

From today's Denver Post:

2B Kazuo Matsui: Would like to stay in Denver, but is looking for at least $3 million a season. Rockies will make an offer but won't get into a bidding war.

A bidding war with who?

Re-signing him to a $3-3.5 million dollar deal shouldn't be as difficult as they make it seem.

by malakian on Oct 29, 2007 5:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

I should read more...
But I've been ignoring the Post insomuch as they've been ignoring us.

To me, this is a no-brainer from both camps, three million seems about right and I'm willing to bet the Rockies reach that figure. I think somebody might offer him a little more than that, but really, Kazuo has to know how well he hits in Denver as anybody else, he's found an adoring fan base and redemption here as well as rekindled the cache of his name in his own country with the Rockies. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't risk that unless I felt I was being insulted by the team. I see him taking the Rockies highest offer, so long as they don't disrespect him with it by going too close to Carroll's utility role salary.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

First show drops
Will Carroll reports (unless he got it elsewhere) that the Tigers have acquired Edgar Renteria from the Braves for Jair Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez.

That's a decent haul for the Braves, who add a young starter that can come in as a number three or four next season, and one of the most toolsy youngsters in the minors in Hernandez.

That premium prospects are already being doled out speaks very highly for the trade market, good news if we dangle Fuentes and Atkins, bad news if we are hunting for a big name starter.

by David OhNo on Oct 29, 2007 3:56 PM MDT reply actions  

The pendulum has swung
It's no wonder the Braves jumped on that deal quickly, I doubt they'd get anything better anywhere else. From Detroit's standpoint, the deal seems to make sense, however. Jurrgens wasn't going to crack that rotation and Hernandez wasn't going to get through Maybin and Granderson in center, and probably lacks the power to be a legit corner. This gives Detroit one of the best -albeit declining- shortstops in the game on both sides of the ball, and solidifies what's becoming a very formiddable lineup.

by Rox Girl on Oct 29, 2007 5:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Anybody watching ESPN Classic?
They're just starting to air the Rockies '93 home opener against the Expos as part of a day-long 'Mile High Salute'.
mvn.com/mlb-rockies - Staying on the sunny side of Blake Street since 1993.

by Franchise26 on Oct 29, 2007 4:01 PM MDT reply actions  

Yes.
And it's almost Eric Young home run time!
The sun has set on our 2007 season, but the 2008 sunrise is almost here, and is brighter for us than anything we can imagine

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 29, 2007 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Video?
Anyone know where I can find video of that? I'm not at home plus I don't have ESPN Classic, anyway. I tried Youtube, but had no luck. I'm jonesing to see it, all of a sudden.

by holly96 on Oct 29, 2007 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

How much?
Considering the found money with the post season and the inexpensive core players, where should we go in terms of salary? - Monforts are businessmen. They can certainly do the math on the potential for earning as long as they keep the core together - We have some housekeeping to do. Make sure Matty stays and turn him into the franchise along with some other stuff like some bullpen shoring and possible something more reliable up the middle.......But why can't we just simply buy a #2 starter? Doesn't business and baseball wisdom denote that if you got to the WS cheap and you have a good team that you spend some cash to stay there?

We were at 54 mil this year. What now? 65? 70? What is the number?

I think Johan would be a terrible choice. Not that he is not one of the greatest pitchers in my lifetime but as RoxGirl said, we finally won due to patience and planning. Not quick checks to the flavor of the month. I also don't think he is a good personality fit but that is a whole different Oprah. - And I do not care what our Bostonian brother has said, the NL and the NL West is the trail. We cannot build a team for the WS, we must build one to win the NL West and I don't give a hoot if LA gets Johan. They had a bunch of scary pitchers this year and we whipped em just the same when it counted....

"Stay the course"! - Some prospects, some money and good choices will land us right back in it!

-Rickie Rockie

P.S. - Just throwing it out there......What about Matt Cain? Giants are rebuilding. Some very fresh faces may be attractive for them and not cost us much and I doubt Matt wants to wait for things to right themselves in SF. - I have no data on this but I seem to remember him pitching well here....

by Rickie Rockie on Oct 29, 2007 4:33 PM MDT reply actions  

Payroll
I think for us to keep most of these guys around we have to get to $75 mil.
The sun has set on our 2007 season, but the 2008 sunrise is almost here, and is brighter for us than anything we can imagine

by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 29, 2007 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Rox Girl in a Prom Dress?
Brandi, that was nice of you to post your senior picture!
There's only one Rocktober!!

by Charlie77 on Oct 29, 2007 11:25 PM MDT reply actions  

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