Monday Morning Rockpile: It is done.
A remarkable season and a remarkable run ended rather ignominiously, but at least we got our first pennant out of it. Congratulations 2007 Rockies! The focus now turns to getting back, and hopefully one step farther next season. I think right now in my head, I would prioritize our primary needs this way, but I recognize the team might have them in a different order:
- Second Base - re-signing Kaz would probably be preferable, or perhaps targeting his countryman Tad Iguchi if Matsui falls through. Even if Ian Stewart works out, swell, but we need to avoid turning to Jamey Carrol at all costs. I think for the offense next year this is a biggie.
- Catcher - I'm hoping Chris Iannetta is ready now, but we need to have a solid plan B in case he's not. Torrealba will get more money than I think he's worth to a team in free agency, but really it wouldn't be that big of a mistake to re-sign him
- A starter. I'd love for the team to get a ready number one or two just as much as anybody, and I'd be willing to give up one of our top prospects to get it done so long as we controlled said starter for more than one season. I think the team ends up getting an innings eating number three or four, as well as rolling the dice by re-signing Rodrigo Lopez for a possible late return. This kind of depth will be enormously helpful in getting us back to the postseason, but the lack of a number one if Jimenez or Morales don't step into that role might make for an earlier exit.
- Re-tooling the bullpen. This free agent list is underwhelming after a few elite guys that won't work for middle relief, but the team needs to rebuild with a few of our 2007 guys hitting the road.
So congratulations to the Red Sox. Your turn from good and lovable loser to loathed and feared mega-team is complete:

Hmm... pardon for the obvious racist exploitation of the original film poster, but the image seemed somehow appropriate anyway. It was our first World Series and we were savaged by a superior opponent, that's pretty much all it boils down to. Let's clean up and move on.
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Virgin Sacrifice?
Good season, guys, let's not forget that. If the World Series is over, spring training and new life in 2008 are just around the corner. Let's go Rockies!
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 8:06 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks for a great year
It was interesting to see how many new names showed up as the team started its run for success.
Me? I wasn't going to jinx the team by posting here, or at fanhome where I normally post amongst all the negativity...
Spot on on some of the needs
- I would add CF as another need area. I do not think Willy is a long term answer as he tends to be overwhelmed offensively and defense (the NLCS catch aside) was suspect. Sullivan is no answer either. Spilly is good as a fourth outfielder with 200-300 ABs but does not seem like 500 AB potential or a defensive solution in the large confines. We have lots of corner OF depth but our CF situation seems a little weak. Lots of possible solutions out there but it is unlikely the Monforts will pony us $$$.
- This series showed we were overmatched in SP. We need to rid some excess talent (Sullivan, Baker, Barmes, Koshansky, and even maybe a Morales) for a Scott Kazmir type.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 8:57 AM MDT reply actions
Some thoughts on your needs
The Rockies may sniff around, but I wouldn't expect any big change here. Taveras is still a solid but unspectacular option, and I'm sure the development guys will push for O'Dowd to give Fowler a full look in AA before making any long term commitments at the position (or for that matter, Nelson as well, who won't stay at short, and may be waiting to see which position between 2nd and CF that will be open.)
SP- I've long been on this bandwagon, but it shouldn't be at the expense of our elite, near ready prospects. More specifically, Morales doesn't need to go anywhere. Franklin is exactly the type of potential pitcher we hope to soon acquire, and he'll make the league minimum for the next three years. He's not all the way there yet, but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary if he was pretty close to being that by next year's all-star break. Maybe if you're talking Bedard I'd relent, but I just don't see it happening with any other available starter and Morales (Kazmir isn't available, but I get where you're going with that one).
Every other name you mention has to be moved this off-season, and here are some ideas:
-Koshansky to Texas for Benoit/Otsuka: This one is part me and part malakian. I've pushed for Benoit for a few weeks, and mal has put the appropriate trade return down. Either Benoit or Otsuka could either take the eighth inning from a departed Fuentes, or share it with him as a right handed option. Benoit was excellent in high leverage innings this year, and seems to be the type of guy the Rockies could count on to come through in big spots.
-Barmes to Detroit for Jose Capellan/Yorman Bazardo: Neither Capellan nor Bazardo are great shakes, but both are power relief "prospects" that could potentially be useful. Bazardo has a power sinker that could work well as a middle inning damage control guy, and Capellan was actually one of Milwaukee's best relievers a year ago, and the stuff is all there. The point here is that if you shotgun spray the bullpen with enough power types arms (Morillo, Bautista, Capellan/Bazardo), chances are you'll at least get one to stick.
-Sullivan to Florida for Miguel Olivo: Sullivan represents some thing of a safety net for the Marlins should they not finally land the starter they would like. He may not be enough to land Olivo, but let's say there is little market for Miguel, which is likely. Olivo has proven to be a solid backstop that has the potential to control the running game. He's not an ideal starting backstop, but he has roughly two years left under team control and carries about the same on field value as Torrealba. Actually, Olivo has shown considerable pop for a catcher, and Coors could really play to his strengths. Starting two games a week for Iannetta while always threatening to take a pitcher deep isn't a bad number two catcher.
-Jeff Baker to Washington for Felipe Lopez: Baker could go any number of places because he has the most potential of this group. I'd entertain this trade because Lopez has a history of filling in several infield positions while showing better offensive numbers in the past. Coors Field could revitalize his offense and he would be a better long time fill in option at second than Carroll. Lopez brings offensive potential, bench speed, and versatility
Thoughts on your trade proposals:
-Sullivan for Olivo: I'm guessing both players will be non-tendered (definitely Olivo). Not a fan of Olivo.... he has a lot of holes in his game.
-Baker for FeLo: Lopez is another non-tender candidate. I can't see why the Rockies would want to pay Lopez $4 million via arbitration when they could re-sign Matsui at the same price (I`m guessing they prefer Matsui to Lopez). I like Lopez though, he's a good rebound candidate for 2008. If Matsui leaves and Lopez is non-tendered, I'd like to see the Rockies pursue him.
On a further note on Yorvit
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 8:59 AM MDT reply actions
Johan Santana
If I might be allowed to give my opinion on your future...
The Rockies #1 priority is to keep Johan Santana away from the Dodgers. You guys obviously have young talent, but Ubaldo or Francis is not a legitimate #1 starter. Your team needed someone to shut the Sox hitters down, that is Santana.
You have talent in your system, you have 2 young studs, trade one, either Jimenez or Morales, package them with a couple top prospects and keep Santana away from Chavez.
Johan is perfect for Coors, power arm with 2 fastballs, 2 change ups and a hard slider.
D. Lowe, Schmidt, Billingsly, Penny and Santana is not something you want to deal with.
Best of luck next year.
by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 9:02 AM MDT reply actions
Why cap the growth?
Just for some perspective, how would Santana have changed our lot in the World Series? Would he have held the Red Sox to one run through nine to keep us in game one? Possibly. Let's say he does win game one, we're still down 3-1, and still looking at eventual defeat. When they year would end, we'd lose Santana and have no Morales, Nelson, and Hynick to show for it.
I believe we need a starter, but not at the expense of our elite young, CHEAP guys, and not for a one year rental.
Now if we had a negotiating window and then a mutli-year deal, things would be different.
Not sure I agree with you... on most points.
Packing Jimenez or Morales with a couple of other prospects for a year of Santana is not a smart idea. If the Rockies do that, and don't win in 2008, what then? Surely Santana will be out of the Rockies' price range, unless he blows out his arm.
As for the Dodgers getting him -- well, first of all, a move to get Santana would necessitate trading away some of their young talent (like, say, Billingsley.) I really don't see how the Dodgers could get Santana without giving him up, and they'd probably still have to throw in a James Loney or someone like that. And if things were decided on talent alone, the Dodgers would have been the NL West champions this year. Talent is why the Dodgers were widely picked to win the division; team chemistry (and, to a certain extent, injuries) were why they finished fourth.
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 9:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Santana is the best pitcher in MLB...
Come on guys, Jimenez was impressive but is he going to be Johan? A two time Cy Young winner with the kind of stuff like 99' Pedro, heavens no.
Why do you trade your prospects? bc Johan has proven to everyone he is in the top five starters in the MLB for the past ten years. Look at his stats.
As for this series...pick a game.
Game #1 - you don't give up 13 runs, Santana can go 9 innings like Beckett. Plus he is a lefty which hurts the Sox.
Game #2 - You would most likely win this game with Santana.
Game #3 - You don't give up 6 runs in the 3rd inning.
Game #4 - Well Cook pitched pretty well, but I still think Santana gives up 2 runs at the most.
The deal on the table currently is Dodgers giving up Kemp/Kershaw for Santana.
If you do not get a Santana the Rockies should trade for either Bedard, Haren or Sabathia, and pay them.
by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions
There's our answer!
by Franchise26 on Oct 29, 2007 10:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Seriously
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
"pick a game"
Cloning devices?
by rockieprogress on Oct 29, 2007 10:50 AM MDT up reply actions
Right
Yes, cloning device. If the Monforts had something that could make three Johan Santana clones to start Games 2, 3, and 4, it would be possible for Santana to start every game. Have you seen Multiplicity? (Just don't make a copy of a copy...)
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions
I've got to disagree, here
If Santana wins game one and game five, there's at least a decent shot that Francis and Jimenez come back to win six and seven. Not to mention the fact that it changes the tone of the entire series from the start, the Red Sox suddenly don't look that superior to the Rockies. At the very least, it definitely brings us a lot closer to the title than we came this year. I would have no qualms having Johan on the team, I just have issues with signing him to a long term contract.
Also...
As for the other pitchers you've mentioned: Bedard, while good, is a MAJOR injury risk. Haren had a good year, but he's really just an above-average starting pitcher and not a true ace. I doubt the Indians will part with Sabathia, considering they're going to be contending in 2008 and Sabathia is part of that.
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
I've said this before,
I'd rather trade for somebody like Snell or Bedard -and I'd be willing to give up a lot more for them- frankly, or sign a second tier free agent. If the team does go after Santana to help for 2008, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I want to center it around replaceable (for the Rockies at least) players that could have a limited future beyond 2008 with the club -like Hawpe or Atkins- than one of our major prospects.
Exactly!
Im confused about something...
The Broncos have almost max cap, the Nuggets spend money to get people. I see no reason why Denver cannot remain a major player in the NL for as long as it wants. But the ownership will have to spend around $30 million more to keep up with the Mets, Phillies, Braves, Cards and Dodgers.
My use of Santana is bc he fits into the profile of pitchers who do well in Coors. A power arm who does not rely on breaking pitches. He has two deadly fast balls and two insane change ups.
Would Santana win the World Series for you this year? maybe not, but he could get you to a game 6 and 7 like Beckett did for the Sox in the ALCS.
Its gospel in baseball that pitching wins playoffs. Deal some youth for a little experience, thats all my suggestion was.
by SoxAcumen on Oct 29, 2007 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions
Denver would support it
The fact of the matter is that we are not the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, or Mets. We are a smaller market team, owned by what seems to be penny-pinching owners (we hope they prove us wrong). We have had to build completely through trades and our farm system. Now we could possibly trade some talent for a big name pitcher, but Santana's not a legitimate option for the reasons above. The curse of a small market team is that you cannot only think about this year. No Kazmir type deals can EVER be made to win now.
All the Reports I've Read
NFL is different, as they have almost full revenue sharing and a hard salary cap. NBA also has revenue sharing and a semi-hard cap. NHL has a very hard cap..and partial revenue sharing (the best for an owner). MLB has little to no revenue sharing, with only a "luxury tax" on high salary teams..usually paid by only the Yankees and Red Sox.
I do believe the Rockies could have a payroll at or near league average of $75 million a year. Or closer to the Median of $71 million a year. But even those may not be realistic for our cash flow.
Jiminez + Time = Santana
As for other offseason musings:
- I've already made the case for Jon Rauch as the 8th inning guy.
- Today's paper hinted at possible returns for Chacon and Jennings. I'm OK with taking a look at either, as long as we're talking incentive-laden deals, not big $$.
- Frankly, I wouldn't mind an upgrade in RF to a more athletic and consistent player than Hawpe. Maybe it's Seth Smith, maybe it's a veteran guy. Meantime, Hawpe is very dealable and I'd consider packaging him with Fuentes for a SP.
- re: CF -- Free agent Aaron Rowand, anyone?
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 9:30 AM MDT reply actions
Nice points
Chacon in the bullpen -- maybe, as a mid-game innings eater, if the price is right. Jennings in any capacity -- no way. That train has left the station.
Wholeheartedly agree about Hawpe. I like the guy, but I think Smith would prove himself the better choice, given the chance. His strikeout rate this year was 16% (73/451), vs. Brad's 27% (137/516). Comparable OBP (Hawpe = .387, Smith = .381) and SLG (Hawpe = .539, Smith = .528). He's also a lefty, like Hawpe, but arguably more athletic. Don't know about his arm.
Points
I'm willing take a look at JJ -- he did enough here to earn at least that. But no multi-year deal and, as I said, load it with incentives.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions
Rauch in the 7th?
I'm more impressed by Rauch's BAA and his K/BB ratio. And, as you say, he's relatively cheap, and the Nats need help in a lot of areas.
I will say this, I always liked JJ's makeup. It's one thing to play fantasy baseball with all these prospective trades, but clubhouse chemistry and individual makeup count for a lot. Just ask Grady Little. You just have to wonder how much his horrid season this year has affected him.
rauch
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't see us trading for Rauch
You're probably right
You like the Nats?
by DbacksSkins on Oct 29, 2007 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Congrats, Rockies!
Now?
Totally different story. I hate to admit it, but I cried after last night's loss. I've only cried after painful losses (and not ones I played in - different story) I've watched two other times:
- 1998 when the Avs got knocked out of the first round by Edmonton (my first year of being a crazed hockey fan)
- When BU got destroyed by BC in the NCAA Regionals two years ago, when there was just a feeling about the team that hadn't been there before.
Here's looking to next year ...
by Quiz23 on Oct 29, 2007 9:55 AM MDT reply actions
Bro
I have advocated Rowand many times. I think he is a better hitting, better character Jim Edmunds guy. He would excel here. His cost would be $9-11M per year though.
I think Jennings is done and much like Neffi Perez will long remember the day he declined the Rox offer.
As for the 8th inning, I am not a "your job" is inning X kind of guy but would prefer anything over Fuentes at this juncture.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:01 AM MDT reply actions
I agree in regards to Rowand
I don't think our bullpen situation is that bad. Everybody has holes there every year, and we've got a few relievers who should be able to step up and into more prominent roles in 2008 and O'Dowd's excelled at finding arms that give quality production at little cost.
Yes and no
For starting pitching, I think we should be looking for a guy with a good K/9 rate. Internally, Hirsch deserves a shot in the rotation next year. In the FA market, Kazmir seems like a good choice, and MUCH more affordable than Santana. If he can control his BB/9 rate and stay injury-free, he's probably good for 16-18 wins. That's especially true playing in front of our defense, rather than Tampa Bay's.
At 2B, it's critical we re-sign Matsui, preferrably for another 2 years. He brings speed to the top of the lineup, and with Taveras gone (as I hope he is), Matsui becomes even more indispensible. Also, I'd be surprised if the Stewart experiment succeeds. After him, who's left? Nix? Wimberley? EY Jr.? I don't see any of those guys as an upgrade or even a lateral move, at least not in 2008.
As for catcher, Torrealba's not worth the money he'll get in FA. The problem is, who else is out there? Maybe the bigger problem is, what will it take for Clint to give Iannetta a legitimate chance? He sure hasn't shown a lot of confidence in Chris so far.
For the bullpen, I'd love to see Casey Weathers break camp with the big club. Granted, he's only got a year in the system, but he also happens to be 22, a year older than Franklin and a year younger than Ubaldo. I understand the Rocks like to wean their players along, but I think he's going to be ready in April for 8th inning duty.
CF - I'll admit, Ellsbury was fun to watch. Good luck prying a AAA prospect of his caliber from another club, but as has been pointed out, we have some prospects ourselves to use as bargaining chips. I'd rather go that way than spend monster dollars on Torii Hunter or (god forbid) Aundrew Jones.
O'Dowd has developed a good model for long-term success. I'd rather stick with the model than throw huge wads of money into a very few monster contracts. Heck, take the cash you save and throw it into signing bonuses for some future top prospects. But, that's another issue altogether.
More trade bait
His marginal year at AAA (many lesser rated prospects have fared much better) and his horrible at bats have made him expendable.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:34 AM MDT reply actions
Stew
I'm willing to give him a winter to make some adjustments and see what happens. Hopefully, he'll play winter ball (anyone know if he is?) and will get his confidence back.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions
No more
Mark Redman
Elmer Dessens
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 10:38 AM MDT reply actions
Yes, yes, and yes.
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:42 AM MDT up reply actions
Redman
I'd bring him in as a nonroster invitee and give him a shot at earning a BP job in the spring.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions
On the issue of starting pitching
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 10:47 AM MDT reply actions
That's also precisely why we need more
But we don't need to spend money
Losing pitchers for short stretches is part of the game, but losing three starters for the last two months of the season is bad luck that probably won't happen two years in a row. Also consider that at least one injury (Hirsh) was a freak injury that was non-pitching-related.
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
I understand
Smith was clutch off the bench for us and is no doubt more athletic than Hawpe, but he didn't really square up many pitches besides the triple against SD. He had the cue shot against philly, and the bloop double against AZ. If those don't go for hits, we're not even discussing this right now.
Rockies lineup next year (Hopefully):
Kaz
Tulo
Matty
Todd
Atkins
Hawpe
Rowand
Iannetta
Lethal!
PS- As much as adding Rowand would be great for the lineup, we first need to lockup Holliday, we cannot afford to let potentailly the greatest Rockie ever walk after next season.
the rotation next year looks pretty good too
Cook
Baldo
Hirsh
Fogg or other generic starter while Morales gets a little more AAA seasoning?
Sounds pretty good to me.
by ch3cooh on Oct 29, 2007 10:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree about Hawpe
Hawpe
My feeling isn't based on the postseason, it's from watching him for a couple of years and consistently thinking "he's just not the player he really should be." Kind of a gut thing -- he just underwhelms me, regardless of his numbers.
As for replacing those numbers, power hitting, run producing corner OF'ers aren't that rare a commodity. The bigs are filled with the likes of Michael Cuddyer, Curtis Granderson, Corey Hart kind of guys. Not saying those guys in particular are better than Hawpe, just that it's way easier to replace what Hawpe gives you than it would be to replace, say, Tulo.
This isn't really that big a thing for me. If Hawpe's there in 2008, I can live with that. Just see it as a position for a possible upgrade.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
AND
I think Hawpe is expendable as well. I've said this spring...he may be the most overrated player on the team (by most of the posters here). At the end of the year his number are good. He even won some big games for us this year....but there is something I just don't like
Girardi offered Yanks job
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:05 AM MDT reply actions
Yeah, but
Wait, this is the same guy who fired Billy Martin six times, right? What am I saying?
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions
They're all drama junkies over there
Just watch -- sometime around May, when the Yanks lose a few in a row, Steinbrenner will pop off the to press about lack of effort and Girardi will, unlike Torre, answer back in kind. And then it's war.
But that's part of the show when it's the Yankees. It's all about keeping them on the back page of the Post and the Daily News and keeping the Mets off it.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions
If the 2006 NL MOTY
by DbacksSkins on Oct 29, 2007 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
Rowand?
And as for free agent options, why oh why is everyone all hot and bothered about Rowand? He just had a career year at age 29. He'll probably command at least a 4 year deal. Hmmmm... I wonder what trajectory we can expect his production to take in next few years? His contract would be a complete albatross by 2010. Johnny Damon, anyone? I don't like the idea of spending 10 million a year on a guy like that. Use it on pitching, or to try and resign Atkins or Holliday.
If management has soured on Taveras and absolutely feels the need to dip into the FA market for CF, why not go after Andruw Jones for a 1 year deal as he re-auditions for the big deal he thought he'd be signing this offseason? I hear that's probably what he's going to do. This is a guy who was almost an MVP in 2005 and had a great 2006. He didn't just suddenly forget how to hit this past year. I think he'll bounce back strong in 2008 and Coors would be a fantastic place for him to do so. Of course, the problem is that should he return to for after this 1 year deal I'm proposing, he would be out of the Rockies' price range and they'd be right back where they are now. But I'd rather rent him for a year than commit a bunch of money over the course of 4 or 5 years to Rowand. MUCH rather.
Willy
Now, hopefully, his inability to get non-infield hits was a result of rust and injury. But what if it wasn't?
Obviously, everyone will take the cue from Boston and play their 3B 45 feet away next season. If Tavares can't adjust, we're screwed.
I'm fine with brining him back, but there had better be a plan B. And I'm not certain that's Spilly.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Not all third basemen are Mike Lowell
I'll do you one better
As for Willy, teams were trying to take away the bunt all year. The Red Sox didn't do anything other teams haven't been doing since he came into the league in 2005. His poor performance in the series was mirrored by everyone on the team, save Holliday. That's a small sample size against great pitching after coming off an injury. I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Look at his splits from April (not as bad as I had originally thought, in terms of OBP) through July this year. He was a more than adequate leadoff guy.
Bunt defense
Now, a couple line drives whistling down the third base line would effectively pre-empt such defenses, but Tavares seems incapable or unwilling to adjust his swing and provide those.
Truthfully, if he could consistently pull the ball, he could hit .350 or .360 by simply taking whatever the oppsition is giving him -- bunt or line drive base hit.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I've been looking at my own
Rowand is a couple of years younger than Damon was when he signed that albatross contract with the Yankees, and even with that, it wasn't until this season that Damon was slightly below league average as a hitter. What I don't like about Aaron is that his style of play makes the injury risk a big factor to consider, but I think he's the only center fielder hitting the market that will be able to perform close to the level his contract will dictate.
I think it's more a luxury that we should go after if we're sure we can meet those other more pressing needs.
I'll hop aboard
Beyond the free agency bump that is a statistically supported phenomenon, Rowand isn't significantly much different than Ryan Spilborghs.
For starters, Rowand can't hit hard stuff. He gears up for the fastball which causes him to flail miserably at breaking stuff away. Why does that matter much? He's getting to the 30 year range where his lack of bat speed could become an even bigger concern.
While he plays a very good centerfield, speed isn't one of his tools out there, so his range will decline much quicker as he leaves his 20's. Besides, of the defensive tools, speed is the single most important one in Coors' centerfield.
Rowand's right for some but not this team. I don't think he's ever going to be as good again as he was this year.
I agree completely.
Injury prone? Check
Coming off a career year? Check
Also, Rowand will probably be classified as a type-A free agent this winter. That means the Rockies must surrender their first round pick in order to sign him. He's not worth it.
of course, our first round pick
Here's my counterpoint to all these points though. Incremental improvements become a lot more valuable for a ninety win team trying to get to ninety-five wins than they do for a seventy win team trying to get to seventy-five. Given how weak the free agent pool is at second base and catcher, I think this is the one area on offense where we can add something from outside without too much of a dropoff in defense.
PECOTA pegged Rowand to be a 3.6 win player in 2008 before his breakout year in 2007 which should bump up the next projection to well over four wins. Taveras meanwhile, underperformed relative to his projections at a 3.2 WARP this year, and there is no way his 2008 projection of 5.0 wins stays that high. My point of this is that even with a regression, Rowand should add more offensive value to the squad in 2008 than Taveras would. While I highly doubt that the 7.7 win Rowand of 2007 is for real, I feel that it's closer to what we can expect from him going forward than the 2.6 win player he was in an injury plagued 2006.
What's more, I think Willy T's speed clouds over Clint Hurdle's mind into thinking he's more valuable at the plate than he really is. Comparing everyday lineups:
1 Taveras
2 Matsui
3 Holliday
4 Helton
5 Atkins
6 Hawpe
7 Tulo
8 Iannetta
to
1 Matsui
2 Rowand/Tulo (switch them according to stuff, Rowand for finesse, Tulo for flamethrowers)
3 Holliday
4 Helton
5 Atkins
6 Hawpe
7 Tulo/Rowand
8 Iannetta
to me makes it clear that Aaron's skills could provide more value to the team than Willy's do, as Taveras and Kaz become a sort of low OBP but dangerously speedy redundancy at the top of the lineup.
I just don't think it's that bad a move defensively, and actually could be very large boost to the offense.
If we upgrade in CF
To me, the negatives of signing Rowand outweigh the positives.
-Rowand will likely get a 5 year / 50 million dollar contract.... The Braves, White Sox, Padres, Nationals, Rangers and Giants will likely be interested creating a bidding war for his services.
-Due to his crash-and-bang style of play, Rowand is always battling injuries. Is he really worth $10 million a year when he`s seemingly on the DL half the time? A career ending injury such as a concussion is always a possibility as well.
-Leaving Citizen Bank Park, his offense is likely to decline in 2008 and beyond. By 2010 he could be a liability both offensively and defensively. Keep in mind that Rowand had a sub .750 OPS in both 2005 and 2006, was his 2007 season a fluke?
-Giving a 4 or 5 year contract to an inconsistent 30 year old is always risky.
-No draft pick. As a fan of development and the farm system I am opposed to this. We could end up finding a gem in the lower part of the first round. Have we suddenly become the San Francisco Giants?
All good points
Add in the fact that we could use more pitching and need $$$ to retain guys like Holliday, then yes, keep Willy, let other teams overpay for ARow. There is not a defensive void with Willy, he just needs to learn to spray line drives all over the place, much like a guy we just saw all too much, Jacoby Ellsbury.
tori hunter
plus he's going to get
I for one
Add to that
A funny angle on A-Rod
Yep
Why, oh why, couldn't Hampton have opted out of his deal? :)
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Because
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
On A Rod
Shame on Scott Boras for upstaging the WS. The A Rod money grab takes the headlines on the biggest stage. How many WS games has A Rod played in?
We now have 25 guys (whoops 24 since Ianetta DNP) who have more WS experience than he does.
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:26 PM MDT reply actions
His original position...
Yeah but
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Giants
by Rox Fan in TN on Oct 29, 2007 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Filling the voids
Catcher:
Free Agents: Lo Duca, Ausmus, Michael Barrett, Jason Kendall, Damian Miller
(note: I suppose you could add Ramon Castro and Rod Barajas to this list, but both have character/attitude issues which will probably scare off management)
Via trade: Gerald Laird, Ronny Paulino, Javier Valentin
2B:
Free Agents: Iguchi, Mark Loretta, Luis Castillo
Via trade: Josh Barfield, Felipe Lopez, Chris Burke
Starting Pitching:
Free Agents: Randy Wolf, Kip Wells, Brett Tomko, Jon Lieber, Kris Benson, Matt Clement, Jason Jennings?, Carlos Silva (he'll probably be too expensive)
Via trade: Jon Garland, Nate Robertson, Dave Bush, Chris Capuano, Paul Byrd, Dontrelle Willis, Chad Gaudin, Jose Contreras
Set-up:
Free Agents: Troy Percival, Octavio Dotel, Doug Brocail, Keith Foulke, David Riske, Rudy Seanez, Luis Vizcaino, Julian Tavarez
Via trade: Akinori Otsuka, Joaquin Benoit, Jon Rauch, Luis Ayala, Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Rincon, Jason Frasor, Chad Qualls, Mike MacDougal, Al Reyes, Salomon Torres, Derrick Turnbow, Dan Wheeler, Matt Wise
LOOGY:
Free Agents: Ron Mahay, Trever Miller, J.C. Romero, Ron Villone, Hitoki Iwase?
Trade: Will Ohman, Jimmy Gobble, Alan Embree, Scott Eyre, John Grabow
Ugghhh
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Well
I just wanted to use
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
If anyone wants to see video
That's
If Willis comes cheap, he's an obvious candidate for change of scenery improvement. But enough teams will think that to end up driving his price up.
Yet more reasons to at least take a gander at JJ and Chacon.
As for other positions, Felipe Lopez is a little bit interesting if Matsui is priced too high.
I like Riske as a possible set up guy.
I like Jimmy Gobble only because it would be cool to have a guy named Jimmy Gobble.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Chacon ain't coming back
Two, he can't help but take shots at the team, either immediately following the trade or his statement this year about how he learned how not to do things.
Three, he just isn't very good. Be careful when placing too much emphasis on the most recent season, and that goes for any player (save for guys in their early twenties). Besides, his peripherals suggest an ERA in the mid 4's, not sub 4, and we have plenty of guys that can put up a 4.5 ERA in middle relief.
Chacon
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Stay with Ianetta?
Nice
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:05 PM MDT reply actions
Nice
No, but I think I'll have to buy that post season
by PinchHitLancePainter on Oct 29, 2007 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions
What about
He's part of the mix for sure
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions
ive always said
speier in the 8th is good. our pen should be
closer-corpas
middle- bucky
let the spring decide the rest but sign anyone that can throw well.
hawk
herges
newman
speier
affeldt
anybody else
Red Sox Troll
I think a Red Sox poster a few threads ago mentioned the sheer statistical difficulty of continuing to win after going on a 21/22 tear, and I think that's true. In the ALCS, after the Indians won 3 games in a row, I kind of think that the Sox ended up winning in large part due to the whole "toin coss" nature of baseball. In a sport where SO many games are played, it is almost a given that teams will run hot and cold. (Sox '07 season showed this at several points.)
I am far from a baseball expert - I only became a fan after I started attending college in Mass about 10 years ago. However, I think the Rockies looked really good in those last 2 games, and I hope to visit Coors Field someday.
by 808BostonSportsFan on Oct 29, 2007 3:18 PM MDT reply actions
Sox fan
As i reflect upon it, I think the 21 out of 22 thing is probably what caused the Rox to come up empty in the WS. It's like, in basketball, when one teams storms from 25 points down to make a game of it in the final minutes, but is so wiped out from the effort that they can't finish.
The Rox played with their backs agains the wall for so long that I really do think it just drained them. Hopefully, next year they'll get off to a good start and not have to kill themselves down the stretch.
by BroJB @ Purple Row on Oct 29, 2007 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
A repeat in '08 - wouldn't that be something?
Yes, I think the Rox were probably just a bit tired. I don't really think the "inexperience" angle was as big as the media made it out to be; obviously, they had some experience from steamrolling through the NLCS. The last 2 games were extremely close, so they were not greantly outplayed. One thing the Red Sox had the edge on was patience at the plate, and I am certain that the Rox will show more of that next year. Certainly, with the exception of the Nation/"Empire," the whole country was rooting for the Rox, and I think they have gained many new fans, bandwagon or otherwise.
by 808BostonSportsFan on Oct 29, 2007 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Matsui
Also, consider that some teams will be scared off by his huge home/road splits.
Possible destinations for Matsui:
-Chicago White Sox (could go with Richar)
-Minnesota (could go with Punto or Casilla)
-San Diego (could go with Antonelli--- rumored to be interested in Iguchi)
-Houston (could go with Burke, Loretta or Wigginton)
Other than maybe Minnesota or Chicago, I doubt any of those teams would be seriously interested in him.
That's it. So unless Matsui wants to return to Japan, he shouldn't have too many other options open.
White Sox...
Then again, it is Kenny Williams, so who freaking knows?
who said he'd be difficult to re-sign?
At least I hope not, if they are, then I definitely hope they read your post. This is a situation where the two sides are so perfectly made for each other that it's hard to imagine a deal not happening.
A few fans, but mostly the Denver Post
Renck believes the Rockies won't be able to afford him without shedding salary elsewhere.
I imagine Carroll will be difficult to dump. But re-signing Matsui shouldn't have anything to do with dumping Carroll's salary on anyone. There should be enough room on the payroll for both of them.
A bidding war with who?
Re-signing him to a $3-3.5 million dollar deal shouldn't be as difficult as they make it seem.
I should read more...
To me, this is a no-brainer from both camps, three million seems about right and I'm willing to bet the Rockies reach that figure. I think somebody might offer him a little more than that, but really, Kazuo has to know how well he hits in Denver as anybody else, he's found an adoring fan base and redemption here as well as rekindled the cache of his name in his own country with the Rockies. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't risk that unless I felt I was being insulted by the team. I see him taking the Rockies highest offer, so long as they don't disrespect him with it by going too close to Carroll's utility role salary.
First show drops
That's a decent haul for the Braves, who add a young starter that can come in as a number three or four next season, and one of the most toolsy youngsters in the minors in Hernandez.
That premium prospects are already being doled out speaks very highly for the trade market, good news if we dangle Fuentes and Atkins, bad news if we are hunting for a big name starter.
The pendulum has swung
Anybody watching ESPN Classic?
Yes.
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 29, 2007 4:12 PM MDT up reply actions
How much?
We were at 54 mil this year. What now? 65? 70? What is the number?
I think Johan would be a terrible choice. Not that he is not one of the greatest pitchers in my lifetime but as RoxGirl said, we finally won due to patience and planning. Not quick checks to the flavor of the month. I also don't think he is a good personality fit but that is a whole different Oprah. - And I do not care what our Bostonian brother has said, the NL and the NL West is the trail. We cannot build a team for the WS, we must build one to win the NL West and I don't give a hoot if LA gets Johan. They had a bunch of scary pitchers this year and we whipped em just the same when it counted....
"Stay the course"! - Some prospects, some money and good choices will land us right back in it!
-Rickie Rockie
P.S. - Just throwing it out there......What about Matt Cain? Giants are rebuilding. Some very fresh faces may be attractive for them and not cost us much and I doubt Matt wants to wait for things to right themselves in SF. - I have no data on this but I seem to remember him pitching well here....
Payroll
by The Lodo Magic Man on Oct 29, 2007 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions



















