Friday Morning Rockpile: The Day After

by Russ on Dec 7, 2007 7:44 AM MST in Rockpile Comment 23 comments

So, we're still waiting on Jamey Carroll to be traded to the Indians. Both sides just need to decide on the player since Sean Smith is no longer heading to the Rockies.

In the "Mile High Watch" section of Ringolsby's latest article, we find out that one of the next step for the Rockies is to discuss a long-term deal with Tulo. And maybe Fuentes. We know who has priority there.

Also in that piece, Mike Coolbaugh's memory will live on in the Texas League after having an award named after him. His brother, Scott, received the first award for TL coach of the year.

The Yankees want LaTroy Hawkins for a one-year deal. Though, the more interesting news is that the Yanks have talked with the Giants about sending Hideki Matsui to the other coast for Noah Lowry. Last night, there was a report on WFAN that the deal may be Matsui for Jonathan Sanchez.

Matsui has a complete no-trade clause and might waive it, according to the article. Seriously, he wants to go to San Francisco?! If the Giants want him and Matsui wants to go there, why not? $26M over the next two years for a guy who'll be 34 in June. Some things never change.

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"issues"

Does anyone know what "issues" are being referred to in that Iguchi article? I could understand maybe not wanting to beat out one of your countrymen for the job, but Kaz is gone...it's not a competition. Anybody who lived in Japan or knows that aspect of the culture who could comment on this?

by roxrok on Dec 7, 2007 9:13 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

On a thought

from a couple of weeks ago, David OHNO (I think) posted on getting better during the off season. So far our "deals" have been treading water. Iguchi would be nice at 2nd....but is he better then Kaz? Is Torrealba/Iannetta 08 combo better then Torrealba/Iannetta combo 07?

I realize when you are the NL champs...that's hard to improve on. But I don't see any moves making us better in 08 then in 07. Unless you think another year of maturity for Tulo/Atkins/Holliday and our pitching staff is improving, by standing still (I think it is to a degree). Francis-Cook-Jimenez-Morales-Hirsch in 08 to me IS better then Francis-Cook-Lopez-Fogg-Hirsch in 07

So what could we be doing? I'm not sure. I don't see too many names of pitchers available, that I think will be better #5 then Jason Hirsh/Franklin Morales. I don't see too many 2ndbasemen better then Iguchi (assuming we do sign him).

Unless of course we do a blockbuster trade, and get say Eric Bedard and Brian Roberts from the Orioles for Atkins/Hawpe/name one of our young pitchers say Hirsh or Reynolds & throw-in a young position guy like Koshanski or Nix. It looks like to me we are treading water, and not improving.

But we are the NL champs! Everyone else is trying to catch up to us!

Thoughts?

I miss baseball. Is Hurdle still a terrible manager now?

by Redhawk on Dec 7, 2007 10:53 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Upgrades

Its hard to see where we can improve this team...

I see our Starters being much much better this year, and having a whole year of Jiminez is much better then a year of say Fogg. As far as position players go.. not much to improve here except 2b and CF.

2b I think Iguchi is better, however not by much.

I don't want to spend money on Rowand, and had no interest in Jones before he went to LA. One possibility is Cody Ross out of Florida. He has some pop, still young, should be an upgrade over Taveres... but is he better then Smith or Spilly? Its hard to say.

There is not much on this market to improve the team with... and I don't think it would fit the mold to break the bank for a year of Santana, or Berdard or even Haren.

by wolf213 on Dec 7, 2007 11:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Where to upgrade

I guess that is the rub. Florida, doesn't even like Ross as their CF and see him more of a corner guy. I like Tavares more then most on "the Row". He can run, had a good on-base percentage, covers ground in CF (and I hope he gets better on making good reads/jumps).

I do see Tavares losing a step as he gets older, then he'll be worthless as a hitter, so no long term contract for him. (seriously, right handed bunters have terribly short shelf life. They usually don't even make it to the majors, unless they can REALLY fly like Tavares) But I'm fine with him until he hits his FA year or until Fowler is ready. I see Hawpe at about his peak now. Either last year, or maybe 08 will be his height....so I don't mind dealing him. But if we do, I don't know that Seth Smith makes us better in 08.

I don't see any impact upgrade via free agency, even if we had the cash to spend, which we don't. I want Iguchi....but I really am starting to think our only real upgrade maybe if Stewart can hit at the major league lever (his cup of coffee last year didn't show he's ready) and he could play 2nd...two really big ifs.

Unless we make a big blockbuster trade.

I miss baseball. Is Hurdle still a terrible manager now?

by Redhawk on Dec 7, 2007 12:01 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

One clear upgrade.....

Wolf, there is one clear upgrade that is both offensive and defensive in nature that I'd LOVE to see. I would like us to package enough players to trade for Dan Haren.

It's defensive because if we don't, the D-Backs will most likely land him since they have the prospects to deal. And then we'd have to deal with Webb/Haren as their #1/#2 starters. Not quite Schilling/Johnson of 2001, but probably the best in the league.

It's offensive because we would be bringing in a true #2 starter who would be our #1. We have the chips to deal too. I'd give up Hirsh (who is still unproven at the MLB level though I like him), Stewart, Reynolds, and Baker.

Haren is signed through 2010 at a total of $16 million, a true bargain in today's market. Having a rotation of Haren, Francis, Cook, Jimenez, and Morales/veteran would be beautiful. NOT letting the Snakes nab him would be sweet as well.

by Roxpert on Dec 7, 2007 2:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Haren

Is that package even enough to get him? I think with Reynold's injury this summer he might be considered tainted goods. You might have to put Morales in there. Hynick would also be a possibility, though I'm not sure how high his ceiling is.

by moomacher on Dec 7, 2007 2:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No thanks

Hirsh, Stewart, Reynolds, Baker, Morales
for
Haren

...there's something very wrong with that picture...something like...us giving up most of our future for 1 guy...

Granted, Haren is an excellent pitcher and I'd love to see him in Purple, but do we really have to give up the person currently occupying his spot in the rotation, plus our top 3B prospect, plus a top pitching prospect, plus a utility guy, plus another pitcher?

Actually, that might still not be enough; we might need to throw in Dinger, too. ;)

by oo_nrb on Dec 7, 2007 3:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

To me

it seems like it's more than enough. Stewart, Baker and Hirsh are major-league ready players on the cheap. Reynolds is a year away.
That's probably too much.

by arosenthal on Dec 7, 2007 3:57 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't see....

the A's making that deal without Morales or Jiminez. Heck, Billy Beane is asking the Yankees for Phil Hughes AND Ian Kennedy for Haren, so you think he'd get all excited about Greg Reynolds and Jason Hirsh?

baker is a marginal ML player, Hirsh is OK, but projects as a #3 starter at best, Reynolds is coming off a major injury, and Stewart showed some major holes in his swing last season. Reynolds and Stew may pan out, but they're hardly sure things.

No way Beane makes that deal. And (hopefully) no way O'Dowd deals Franklin or Ubaldo, so it's a no-go as I see it.

by BroJB on Dec 7, 2007 4:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Love the idea

In fact, I wish I'd thought of it. Don't know why, but I'm a bit of a Baker fan, but would hand him 20 bucks and bus ticket for Haren.

You didn't by chance email Dan with that, did you? ;)

2007 NL Champions, baby!

by rockhead on Dec 7, 2007 3:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

If Beane had seemed inclined to deal Haren with Carlos Gonzalez as the primary chip in a return package (what the D-backs offered) I would have said absolutely we need to step in and see if they'd rather take a Stewart centered package instead. However, it looks like that Oakland wants MLB talent and that they'll only reach a deal when they take just as much out of Arizona's lineup as Haren gives to their rotation. I don't think Arizona is as much a worry with what they can do on this front as Los Angeles is, but that kind of makes your point still true.

by Rox Girl on Dec 7, 2007 4:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

(Somewhat) unrelated

but right now I am missing baseball hardcore. Why must the offseason be so damn long...

Get Demented. Mother of the Baby Tulos; available at fair price for your Tulo-less ballclubs.

by Silverblood on Dec 7, 2007 9:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

Just earlier today I said to a co-worker how much I missed baseball in general and the Rox in particular. I guess it's the hangover from Sept/Oct since I've never experienced this feeling so early before. (Usually it starts shortly after New Year's.)

On another (somewhat) unrelated topic, does anyone have a clue as to why the Rockies don't have single game tickets on sale in time for Christmas? My partner is hounding me about Opening Day tickets already. Would make a great gift.

2007 NL Champions, baby!

by rockhead on Dec 7, 2007 11:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

They do have

Gift Certificates available. I was going to give those to a couple of clients.

I've missed baseball more this Fall then ever before. But I've fallen in love with baseball, more this year then ever before. This will be my greatest moment in sports....this is the one I'll talk about when I'm old...(like next year)

I miss baseball. Is Hurdle still a terrible manager now?

by Redhawk on Dec 7, 2007 11:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Carroll....Barmes

So with the trade of Carroll to the Indians mean that Barmes will be the utility infielder next season?

If so, is that a upgrade from the 07 team?

It isn't in my book.

I believe trading a valuable bench player like Jamey is a mistake and degrades the overall strength of the team. I don't really care about the contract.. Carroll, who is a gold glove type talent, is a better utility infielder right now than the cheaper less versatile Barmes.

by roxhead on Dec 7, 2007 9:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I just want Barmes off this team

I'm sure he's a perfectly nice person, but he's long since worn out his welcome, has no place, and with him around, I'm afraid Hurdle would give into pet-ism again.

Get Demented. Mother of the Baby Tulos; available at fair price for your Tulo-less ballclubs.

by Silverblood on Dec 7, 2007 9:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The "pet" label is unnecessary

I'm not trying to make a big deal about this, I just feel like you're overstating it. Does he suck? Sure. The guy's a total liability at the plate. But he's not significantly worse than Carroll, and at least offers some pop. Has Hurdle overused him in the past? Sure. Just like he overused Finley and Mabry. But he (Hurdle) showed throughout 2007 that he's improving in terms of how he selects and uses his bench. Case in point- Barmes spent most of 2007 in the Springs, and when he was with the big club, he was barely utilized. He appeared in 27 games and had 37 ABs. Doesn't sound very "pet-like" to me.

In any case, my real issue is with something else you said. how has Barmes "worn out his welcome?" Do you mean strictly in your eyes? Sure, that's fair. But in the eyes of management? As previously stated, from '06 to '07 he went from starter to barely a 25th man. And as this was happening, I didn't hear a peep out of Barmes or anyone else on the team that he was being a poor sport about it. As far as the media's reporting goes, Barmes really accepted his significant demotion with nothing but class. That's not wearing out your welcome. That's being a good teammate.

I mean... we get it. You hate that Barmes is still on the team. He's bad. In 2006, he got about 300 more ABs than he deserved. But the vitriol you pile on him is unnecessary. I don't think hardly anyone on the Row loves him being on the team or thinks that he's anywhere close to a useful contributor. But still, please, just give the "pet" label a rest. Hurdle is learning how to manage his bench and integrate the young guys. Barmes is only going to play a major role in 2008 if the team suffers multiple catastrophic injuries. If DOD and Hurdle feel like he's the best option to fill the role Carroll filled last year (for the price), then so be it. What's the point in dogging on him every time he gets brought up? It's pointless. If he's going to get fewer than 150 PAs and just be a defensive replacement most of the time, he's more than welcome to be a member of the 2008 Rockies in my book.

rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Dec 7, 2007 11:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I hardly think I've been dogging on Barmes

every time he's mentioned; for one thing, I've been gone for over a month. I was responding to a comment made above about whether or not having Barmes on the team was a good thing, and in my opinion, it's time to have him leave Denver. His and our fortunes will both be improved if he seeks employment elsewhere.

Get Demented. Mother of the Baby Tulos; available at fair price for your Tulo-less ballclubs.

by Silverblood on Dec 7, 2007 11:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Calm it down

Silver was flogging a dead horse, and Larry is sounding incredibly self righteous.

Yes, Barmes sucks. We all know it.

But part of being a baseball fan is making fun of the players we don't like but our organizations seem to absolutely love. Like the Twins' fans and Nick Punto. Or Neifi Perez and whatever team he's shitting up at the time. Or Seattle fans and Willie Bloomquist and Rick White or Horacio Ramirez. Henry Blanco for the Cubs. Or Toronto fans and Chris Woodward. Do you wanna tell them to stop hounding their scrubs? That's what they're there for.

So I'm gonna continue hounding on Barmes or Q whenever I see fit.

You have to have a guy to hate. Even if it's just a bench guy, that doesn't mean you shouldn't get pissed off when you find out they're in the line-up for a game you're watching.

It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time It's Tulowitzki!...Tulo-witzki-witzki-witzki ..... rockiesmagicnumber.blogspot.com

by RockiesMagicNumber on Dec 8, 2007 2:08 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs