Friday Morning Rockpile: The Hirsh Question

by Russ on Jul 27, 2007 9:26 AM MDT in Rockpile Comment 9 comments

The Hirsh question is where will he wind up after making his third rehab start on Saturday. He'll be on an 85-pitch count with a focus on his fastball and slider (end of the article) that evening. With one bad outing and one good outing so far, Hirsh will need another good outing if he even wants Hurdle and Co. to consider allowing him back into the rotation.

Who's place would he take? Jimenez? Fogg? It may not come down to kicking someone out of the rotation as much as it may be filling in for someone. After Rodrigo Lopez left in the seventh inning with tightness in the right forearm, it's possible he may go on the DL. We may know some time later today if this injury is serious enough to require time on the 15-day DL.

If Lopez does require another stint on that list, it only solves this dilemma for a short time. Jimenez certainly hasn't done anything to kick him out of the rotation. The three runs he allowed in his last start was just one pitch that saw Mike Cameron hit it for a three-run home run. He improved the number of pitches he threw (106 to 91) and went for more innings (five to seven). And for all the grief Fogg receives from some, he does exactly what a fifth starter should do. He can go six to seven innings and can even look pretty good out there some times (like last week).

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Brad Penny makes three. Three big-name pitchers the Rockies have faced since after the All-Star Break have left with an injury. The first was Ben Sheets, then Chris Young, and now Brad Penny. While the Penny injury may not be serious, it does look like the uncertainty of True Blue's rotation will take them out of the Teixeira sweepstakes.

If the Rockies face Dontrelle Willis in their upcoming series against the Marlins, will he and his changed mechanics be the next pitcher to fall?

Also according to the Rosenthal article (two links above), the D'Backs may have some interest in Adam Dunn and Zack Greinke. I had the same thoughts about Greinke as the that executive quoted in the article. Sure, he's nowhere near where he was projected to be, but the Royals control his rights for a few more years.

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It hasn't been the winning decade Helton hoped for, but August 2nd will mark Helton's 10th year in the Majors. He batted fifth and started in left field against the Pirates in that game.

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Also in that Rosenthal article

is the first evidence of the Rockies' interest in Dan Wheeler. Rosenthal says Wheeler would cost the least in terms of talent, and is controllable through next season.

I don't know what talent it would require, but Dan Wheeler would be a quality addition. He'd lead the bullpen in K rate and K/BB should he come over, and he's been a little unlucky in terms of HR/FB and strand rate. With a K rate above 10 and "big game experience," he'd be the perfect brisge to Corpas.

I think finding an acceptable package or player could be difficult. It would be nice if it just cost one of our B level guys, like Herrera, or better yet, Barmes! I somehow doubt that, and there could be a few more suitors to battle with before the deadline passes. I'd rather we get a young controllable player or two for Koshansky, and Smith has become a little to rish for Wheeler.

by David OhNo on Jul 27, 2007 12:57 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's be realistic. Josh Fogg needs to go.

I am a long time reader and never bothered to register because I never felt like I had anything to add to your all's discussions here. However I cannot hold my tongue about this Josh Fogg vs. The Young Guns (that is what I call Taylor Buchholz, Jason Hirsh, Ubaldo Jimenez, Greg Reynolds, Franklin Morales, Juan Morillo) issue any longer. The thought of keeping Josh Fogg in the rotation while Hirsh's development is damaged by keeping him with the Sky Sox nauseates me. When is the team going to wake up and smell the coffee? When? When will they realize that you do not win by keeping crusty old veterans around for years after they have lost effectiveness. In Fogg's case, he never really was effective to begin with. He's barely a replacement level pitcher. For his career he's struck out less than 5 batters per nine innings. He allows well over a hit an inning, and let's just say he does not possess pinpoint control as he walks 3 batters per nine innings. Nothing frustrates me more than going to Coors Field having not checked the newspaper or internet to review the pitching matchups in advance, and suddenly coming to a realization when the lineups are announced that I've paid good money to see a Josh Fogg start. What a waste. The Young Guns I referred to earlier in this posting are the Next Big Thing in Denver. All will be much more dominant eventually. Taylor Buchholz, Ubaldo Jimenez, and Jason Hirsh are already better alternatives. To keep any of those three on the bench while Josh Fogg continues to bungle his way through the season is the worst thing to happen to the Rockies since the Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle contracts. This team is poised for greatness, in 2008 if not now. It is players like Josh Fogg that are preventing them from achieving it. I do not care how "effective" he has been recently; that was against two pathetic offenses and is more a result of good luck than anything else.

Sorry to be so negative in my first post! It is really a matter of built up frustration more so than anything else.

Go Rockies!!!

by Kyzslew77 on Jul 27, 2007 2:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

What makes Buchholz better than

Fogg right now? Taylor's eight starts this season haven't demonstrated that he'd be much different than Fogg in the rotation. His time in the bullpen, however, has told a different story.

And despite what I wrote above, I'm not a Fogg apologist. I have my problems with the guy (usin W-L record to claim he was actually good last year).

"Don't give up the ship!" - Capt. James Lawrence

by Russ on Jul 27, 2007 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Potential

While both may have similarly uninspiring production in the rotation this year, Fogg has shown that this is what he is capable of.

If a young pitcher with better 'stuff' can provide roughly the same performance as Fogg, isn't the smart thing to do to give them the starts and hope that the experience helps them bridge the gap between thier performance and thier talent?

by MADness on Jul 28, 2007 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is officially

the lamest and most unnecessarily drawn out argument on the row. fogg's ERA as a starter: 4.94. buchholz's: 5.97. that's not "roughly the same performance" in my book. it's also important to note how good buchholz has been out of the pen. having fogg in the rotation and "bucky" in the pen is a win/win for the rockies.

rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Jul 28, 2007 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Missing the point

Arguing that Taylor is better out of the bullpen than he is as a starter is one argument (one which the stats and his performance supports).

That doesn't mean that he couldn't be a better starter than Fogg.

If you would rather that the Rockies run out Josh Fogg on a regular basis rather than giving Jimenez, Hirsch or Buchholz a shot then you are entitled to that opinion. Just don't pretend that the young pitchers have had an equal opportunity to start that Fogg has.

Few rookie pitchers perform at a high level but the last time I checked you have to be a rookie before you can be a veteran.

When Morales and Reynolds are ready to cut thier teeth in the bigs are we going to have this same argument about Fogg?

by MADness on Jul 28, 2007 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

doubtful

because i don't think he'll be around past this season. but for the time being, he's certainly been better than buchholz as a starter. i don't want to hear any more complaining about abnormally high BABIPs or "not getting a chance to get in his groove". the team is still hanging on to a glimmer of postseason hope. one of these guys has so far allowed a full earned run less per 9 innings; that's the guy who should be starting until we're 150% sure we're out of contention. if and when that happens, then i think the team should run the "young guns" (as the new guy so cleverly dubs them) out there as much as possible. hirsh has probably been slightly better than fogg, but his rehab starts have been very underwhelming. jimenez has been great, of course. with lopez possibly hurt again the team may not have to choose between them anyways. if they end up having to, sorry, call me a josh fogg apologist, call me whatever you want, but i'd take him over hirsh.

rockies in october.

by LarryB303 on Jul 28, 2007 5:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

Fair enough.

There is something to be said for Fogg's experience and his reliability.

by MADness on Jul 29, 2007 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Update on Lopez

According to the Rocky Mountain News pregame report, Lopez will probably miss his next start on Wednesday. With the off day on Monday, they could just skip him in the rotation this time around. I guess we'll find out more later.

Free Taylor Buchholz!

by lgh77 on Jul 27, 2007 6:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs